12.5 MO - EW again, 2-1?

[AnnaLind]

Hi, I am looking for some help with some naps issues with my son who is 10 mo.

We had a great routine up until about 2 weeks ago:
WU 5:45/6 am
A 3h 15-30 min
S 9.15 -10 am (45 min)
A 3h 15 min
S 1.15 pm - 2.45/3pm (1hr 30/40m, occasionally 2 hr)
A 3h 30-45 min
BT 6.15/6.30

Gradually it's been going downhill from there. He has started waking from his afternoon nap after only 1h 10-15 min, or sometimes only 30 or 40 mins, crying. Clearly not rested enough to make it to bedtime. I find this strange, as a 1.15 h nap used to mean UT. Also, he has started waking earlier, between 5 and 5.30.

Yesterday:

WU 5.50
A 3 h 20 min
S 9.10 - 9.50 (40 min), woke up with a cry
A 3 h 40 min
S 1.30- 2.45 pm(1h 15 min) He was at my mums and she put him down a bit later than usual, woke up crying
A 3 h 30 min
BT 6.15

Today so far:
WU 5.10, I said the sleep key phrase from my bed and I think he went back to sleep for a bit until 5.30. Got him up at 5.45.
A About 3h 40 min
S 9:10-10:10 am He was sleeping in the pram, woke up after 40 min but went back to sleep. I thought he was OT so let him sleep a bit longer than usual, but woke him after 1 hour to protect the afternoon nap. Or so I thought...
A 3h 20m
S 1.30-2.10 pm (40 min). Woke up happy. Tried to make him go back to sleep, but he wouldnt. Got him up at 3 pm after he had been crying, fussing, playing in the cot for 50 min. I tried PU/PD, he just didn't seem tired but I'm pretty sure he needs more day sleep than this.
So now I guess we will have a cranky baby this afternoon. I am aiming for a really early BT.

I'm wondering what's going on. It's like he has lost some ability to make it to the next sleep cycle. It's strange though, because he always falls sleep independently, and sleeps through the night without waking (so far). Or should I change his EASY somehow? Change his A times?? Is it the 2-1 transition? I have read this http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=145285.0 but not sure if it applies right now?

Any suggestions would be much appreciated. 

[deckchariot]

My dd1 started the 2 to 1 switch at 10 mos, and my 11 mo dd is in the midst of it as well, so I'd say that's most likely what's going on.  It may be time to cap that am nap at less than 45 min and reduce the A time between naps.  Early bedtimes were a life saver for us during the switch with dd1, though they don't appear to make any difference with dd2.

hth
michelle

[creations]

Hi there.  My DS's naps starting going wonky around 9.5 to 10 months too.  By 12 months he was on one nap.
It's a bit bumpy but try to go with the flow and not get too hung up on it, I know it's a bit of a shock after you've had a great routine going but when you come out the other side you'll be back into a new routine.
We are still a little bumpy here with a bit of OT in the early end of his night sleep.
I agree with Michelle, EBT worked great for us too (never had before) and his night sleep extended so we have an earlier BT and a later WU.

[AnnaLind]

Thank you so much for replying. 
I thought he would be really cranky yesterday, but he ended up being in a good mood all afternoon, fell asleep at 6.10, then slept 11 h 40 min until 5.50 this morning!

Right now I'm trying to figure out what A time I should aim for if I cut the am nap even more. Is it reasonable to aim for 4 hours after a good night, then 3 hours after just a 20-30 min am nap?

I think the biggest challenge will be not to get too hung up, I tend to be a bit obsessive when it comes to sleep... 

[*Kara*]

Is it reasonable to aim for 4 hours after a good night, then 3 hours after just a 20-30 min am nap?

Hi hun,

Yes, this is certainly reasonable to start with... I would let him have 30 mins in the AM though... 20  mins could reduce your second A time back to 2.5 hrs.

[AnnaLind]

Thanks Kara, yes today definitely proved you are right. I kept him up too long, almost 3 hours, after just a 20 min nap, and he was cranky after 2,5 h. Of course he was OT and woke up from afternoon nap after just 40 mins... but managed to go back to sleep after about 10 mins, and then slept another 1,5 hours! So tomorrow I will go for a 30 min am nap, 3 hour A and keep fingers crossed for a good nap.

Again, thank you so much! 

[*Kara*]

Sounds like a good plan  

[AnnaLind]

Well we've been struggling for a few days to get the A time right before the PM nap, but yesterday I think we nailed it and he had a lovely 2 hour nap! Only problem was he was only up for 3 hours before bedtime, so we had an UT crib party early this morning (4.40 am) . He was awake for about 40 mins before falling asleep again (phew) and slept until 6.

I think today I need to keep him up for 4 hours before BT if he has a long nap again.

[*Kara*]

LOL!  Sounds like that would be a good idea

[AnnaLind]

Hi again. We had illness in the house so all routines went out the window for a while. Now we are back on track but still struggling with EW. This morning he woke up chatting at 5.10, and I'm not sure if he is OT or UT. Can you give me a clue?

Day before yesterday:

WU 5, but went back to sleep for a few mins until 6
A 3.15
S 9.20-10 (was out for a walk in the pram and fell asleep a bit too early. I let him sleep 40 mins as I thought he was extra tired. Mistake!)
A 3 h
S 1-1.45, only 45 mins, was clearly not tired enough to go back to sleep.
A 4 h 30 min, but gave him a 5 min catnap around 4.30
BT 6.30

Yesterday:

WU 5.15, was awake for a while, I said the sleep phrase, then went back to sleep for about 10 mins until 6
A 3h 45 min
S 9.45-10-15 (capped the nap after 30 min)
A 3h
S 1.20-2.40 (woke up not crying but not happy either)
A 3h 30 min
BT 6.10

And today woke up at 5.10 and wouldn't go back to sleep so got him up at 5.50.

Should I adjust the A times somehow? It's tricky when he wakes up at 5, is awake for 40 min then falls asleep for just a few mins. Not sure what to count as WU time.

[*Kara*]

I have an EW baby too and we frequently see times in the hour of 5am   I could her A time from that moment.. if she doesn't go back to sleep within 15 mins of waking, I start her day.  Letting them be awake for 30-40 mins then returning to sleep could encourage the EW to continue as LO uses this to finish night sleep.

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Just reading along as my DD is the same age and we're definitely starting the 2-1 as well.  Right now we're doing long AM/short PM but I'm thinking about switching to a routine more like yours.  How does your LO do when you wake after 30 min in the AM?>  I did it with DS but it feels like forever ago!

Oh and I agree with Kara.  It stinks SO much but I definitely found with DS that it was better to suck it up and start the day rather than let him go back to sleep for 10 or 15 min.  It ended up just messing with the whole day.    Some people do count the time that they're quietly awake in the crib in the AM as 1/2 A time, so if they wake at 5 and you get them out at 5:30 you consider that they woke at 5:15.  That never really worked for me and I just go from when they wake but it is another idea.

[AnnaLind]

Hi, sorry I haven't replied. Busy week, and this weekend I was away over night for the first time. Yes, after 11 months...  better late than never. 

Kara, that is interesting, I haven't thought of that. I have been thinking (think I read it in BWSAYP) that if I get him to go back to sleep even for a short while, his body clock will eventually adjust and he will wake later. But I think you might be right. His WU time varies quite a lot, from 5 to 6, and I think it's more affected by the EASY from the day before than by habitual waking.

Kmk512, DS is a bit grumpy when I wake him after 30 min, but he quickly gets in a better mood and is fine for about 3 h.
How are you getting on? Have you changed the routine yet?

[creations]

I have been thinking (think I read it in BWSAYP) that if I get him to go back to sleep even for a short while, his body clock will eventually adjust and he will wake later.

Funnily enough I read this just the other night.
Tracy does say that LOs can wake at night for even over an hour and so long as they are not crying you can just leave them to it, she warns that stepping in too soon will disturb them and that left alone they might play and chat and then go back to sleep.

Now for 12 months I did the 5 - 5.30am start, very similar to Kara in that I'd wait to see if he'd go back to sleep but he never did so I'd leave him as long as he was happy then when the alert sounds raised to level 2 I got up for the day.  I always counted A time from WU not get up.
LOs do change though and at 12 months he started sleeping until 7am.  Recently there are some 5am WUs again (and some 3am!) and I've resettled him most times, sometimes unable to.  I might even have jumped in too soon (as Tracy warned) because I didn't want him to wake up too much or for too long.  Since reading that section in BWSAYP again I've held back more and found if I leave him to it he might stay awake over an hour but then he does often resettle and sleep until 7am (if he doesn't resettle I step in, first verbally, then go to him and try to resettle, many times this works too).  I find this preferable because it maintains the 7am WU habit and our day is more consistent.

I do think, like Kara says, if you then allow a nap to come too early it does nothing to discourage the EW (or NW as I class it if he goes back to sleep), we always had a very long first A time.

KMK I kept DS's long am nap when we moved to 1 nap.  I think this way is perhaps used less frequently, but there's nothing wrong with it, just whatever suits your LO and your commitments across the day.

[AnnaLind]

Creations, that is interesting. Did your LO start sleeping until 7 when you moved to one nap?