New to Forum - Need help with 7mo naps...I'm exhausted!

[mamamei]

I have a 7mo girl who I think is somewhere between a spirited and textbook baby.  We put her on the EASY plan at 4mo and it was smooooth sailing.  She stuck to her routine (feedings at 7/11/3/7/DF at 11), went down for naps effortlessly at the first sign of sleepiness, and woke up at 7am every day.

Well now...everything has gone haywire!  She started crawling at 5.5 mos, and learned how to pull herself up to standing at 6.5 mos.  She was energetic to begin with, but now she just seems hyper and always wants to be on the move (I'm constantly wrestling her to feed her a bottle, change her diaper, and change her clothes...she's always flipping around and trying to climb on things!). 

For almost 2 weeks, this is what she has been doing:

between 4:30 and 5:00 - wake-up and bottle (super hyper, ready to play, won't go back to sleep after a bottle)
7:00 - solids
9:00-10:30 - nap (this one usually stays consistent, and she can go down in her crib without too much fussing)
11:00 - bottle
12:15 - solids
1:30/2:00-2:30 - *sometimes* takes a nap...and always screams and fusses to get to sleep
3:00 - bottle
4:00 - solids
4:30 - afternoon meltdown!  she is super fussy, shows signs of being tired, but screams and cries when I try to put her down for a nap.  When I do get her down for a nap (not always), she usually sleeps for almost 2 hours (until 6 or 6:30 pm).  If she doesn't take a nap, we end up doing an early bedtime, but she still wakes up at 5am.
7:00 - bottle
7:30 - nighttime routine, bed by 8:00
10:30 or 11:00 pm - dreamfeed

Some things to note:
-We have to change her diaper right before the dreamfeed because she is always wet at this time, and has developed diaper rash in the past.  She used to be able to sleep right through this diaper change, but now she wakes up (she has become a very light sleeper lately).  She fusses through the diaper change, but usually falls asleep after the dreamfeed.  I'm assuming that since she wakes up though, it's messing up her sleep cycle.
-Bottles are anywhere from 6-8 oz., and solids are about 2-3 oz.
-Should I transition from 3 naps to 2?  If so, how do I ensure that the earlier naps are longer?  Her "long" nap is usually the one right before bedtime, and it's been like that since we started EASY at 4mos.
-We have been able to get her down for a good nap in the afternoon, but it always involves leaving her in the car seat...which is really bad because she is already being treated for torticollis and flat spots on her head.  When I try to put her down for naps in the crib or playpen, she just flips over and pulls herself up to standing, then starts crying and screaming.

Please let me know what you think...these early wakings are killing me! 

[LouiseV]

I just wanted to jump in and say I have been there with a VERy similar sounding wee man and it is soo hard, but things can definitely change!

These spirited bubs are fun arent they, haha

I found that we needed to tweak the EASY routine at this age to help with naps and sleep - and developmental milestones (inc the ones you cant see) really upset sleep.

Maybe to start you could look at the routine as a whole - maybe pop over to the EASy forum under Activity if you dont get any help on here soon, and look at his day to check its totally age and temperament appropriate and then start tackling those naps!!

Just by looking quickly, and I'm not the one to tell you here because I'm not an expert (!) but I would suggest that the first nap is making her hyper and OT as it's too long after her weke up time. She would need a sleep about 3 (?) hours after that at least - I think you possibly have an overtired wee girl on your hands, like I did!!

Looking closer, I would definitely pop on over to EASY and get that looked at first...I think the Dreamfeed has to be TOTALLY asleep so the diaper change will be upsetting that method; white noise will help (played loudly and choose a rumbly one) and keep her bedroom SUPER dark (not even a flicker of light from a radio or anything) to keep her melatonin production high in the early hours.(white noise blocks out birds etc too)

I think you'll find the issues you are facing are totally common at this age and there will be some great ideas for you to tweak things and get some sleep-ins!!!!!!!

Good luck hon

[creations]

I'm not an expert (!)

None of us are Lousie, all just mums like you sharing our experiences and support where we can

Welcome to BW mamamei
There's lots of useful info around here, whenever you get a chance have a browse around.

I agree the first nap looks like it's coming too late
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.0
I'd try for a nap 3 hrs after WU.  I know you probably want to get those naps as late as possible so BT can be later and lead to a (hopefully) ,ater morning WU but when LO is OT the nap ends up short making it harder to get through the day.  OT can also lead to early WU.

The DF, yes the idea is for it to be when baby stays asleep, however, my own experience was that DS would NEVER have anything put in his mouth unless he chose to have it, refused a paci, never sucked his thumb and would take a DF whilst asleep.  We had a non-dream-dream-feed and it worked fine.  I also had to change his nappy just prior to the feed when he was still taking a good amount at that feed.  You could wean the DF now though to reduce the amount of night time disruption. (I believe there are some FAQs on the feeding boards - I reduced the amount of milk each night, very slowly and it didn't take very long.  I then hovered ready to shush/pat if needed because he habitually woke for that non-dream-DF, the process was a lot easier than I anticipated).

Developmental leaps do disturb sleep, the only thing I could suggest is giving as much practice during the A time as possible so reduce the 'need' to practice at sleep time.  Reducing the first A time and getting rid of the OT may help a lot with the hyper activity and playing at nap time.

Some links you might find interesting:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64837.0
(although it would help to get the A times and two naps consistent before dropping the CN or you'll have a huge A time to bed.  FWIW I dropped the middle nap rather than the third nap so it is possible to do things differently depending on circumstances etc and if your LO sleeps well in the last nap you 'might' be able to keep that one)
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=223809.0
(if the morning WU time is quite consistent you could try W2S)

hope this helps some

[LouiseV]

hehe, you're right creations....I meant more that I never could really get my head around A times so I'd hate to put you wrong!! I do know that my 11 month old would struggle with 4-5 hours more than once a day (if ever) so a 7 month old is probably OT from that...

Let us know how you get on on the EASy forum!

[mamamei]

Thanks everyone.  I guess I was keeping her nap time at around 9 or 9:30 because that was her nap time when she was waking up at 7:00.  I was secretly hoping that if I kept her nap time the same, she would get back on track (but of course that has not been working!).  I was also fearing that if she napped earlier, the whole day's routine would get shoved earlier.  She seems to be super happy and lively still at 8:00 though.  I'll see how it goes tomorrow.  I will put her down for a nap 3 hours after WU time...*fingers crossed*!

[LouiseV]

Remember her body clock and signals will be all over the place for awhile so for a few days try and ignore (feels awful saying that but its the best thing!) her tired signs etc and try and shift her EASY to a more age appropriate one where you can.....my wee man was used to being awake so he stopped yawning etc even though he was tired, and when I shifted things he was yawning when I knew he wasn't actually tired his body was just a bit confused for a few days!

And it can take a week or so to consolidate things so be really consistent with those times for awhile then reassess :-)

What kind of day routine are you thinking of moving her to for now??

[mamamei]

Wow, thanks everyone for your help!  I've been waiting to respond because I wanted to see how things would go for a little while (and I've been way too deliriously tired to spend much time on the computer). 

So putting her down earlier for her morning nap sure did help a lot!  And the daylight savings time change helped us out as well.  DD is now getting up at 7:00 a.m., which works out great for us.  Naps are still a struggle though.  She gets extremely fussy and cries really hard whenever I put her down for a nap (and she wasn't really a baby who cried a lot until about a month ago).  PU/PD seems to work her up even more, but when I leave her be (reluctantly), she seems to be able to settle down and fall asleep within 10-15 minutes.  I do hate to leave her crying though!  Sometimes she'll wake up 30 minutes later and cry a little (less than a minute), then fall back asleep .

The worst time seems to be right around 5:00pm.  I find that she gets very fussy and wants to take a nap.  The times that she does take a nap, she sleeps for over an hour...sometimes two hours!  So that falls right before bed time, and we would get her up for an hour just to have dinner and do the bedtime routine...she goes back down an hour to 90 minutes later!  When she misses this nap, she is absolutely cranky and unpleasant, and ends up going to sleep early and missing a feeding.

So I'm a bit confused...it doesn't seem like she is ready to get rid of that 3rd nap, though she is now 7.5 mos old.  But that 3rd nap seems to happen too late.  Your thoughts?

We're also still doing a 4 oz. dreamfeed.  There were a couple nights that she seemed to refuse the bottle and just want to go back to sleep, so we let her skip the dreamfeed, only to be woken up around 2 or 3 a.m. because she was really hungry. 

Right now, this is what our day looks like:

7:00 - WU and feed
8:15 - solids
9:45/10:00 - nap
11:00/11:30 - feed
12:15/12:30 - solids
2:00/2:30 - nap
3:00 - feed
4:30/5:00 - sometimes naps
5:30/6:00 - solids (unless she sleeps through)
7:00 - feed
7:30 - bedtime routine, in bed by 8:00
10:30 - dreamfeed

So our schedule is back to "normal" for the most part.  I'm just concerned about her temperment around nap time, as well as that 3rd nap and the dreamfeed.

[creations]

I do hate to leave her crying though!

I wouldn't leave her.  BW does not advocate leaving a baby to cry, ever.  You should only leave your LO if it is a 'mantra cry' which is not a cry at all, it is a self settling noise LOs use when self soothing.
Here's a link to an article I suggest you read.  It's very interesting.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=222260.0

There may be a reason for her fussiness and crying at nap time, it could be that she is not tired enough and ready for an A time increase now she's 7 months.  If your usual A is currently 3hrs I'd try 3hr 15 for several days, it might also lengthen the two naps and help to drop the CN completely (it's hard to see from your EASY how long the naps are, is it 1.5hrs?  The second nap looks like only 1hr or as low as 30 min?).  Even if the naps don't lengthen to begin with they will be more evenly spaced across the day and therefore reduce the A to BT when the CN is missed.
You really should stay with her, even if she throws your hand off of her you can sit next to her cot and reassure her of your presence verbally, you can run your own mantra like phrases such as 'it's ok I'm here, you're just going to sleep now, it's sleepy time'.  If you PU (I see you say this works her up) you can hold her until she is calm, rock or walk if you need to, use your key phrase, or shush/pat if she likes that.  It may take some time to re-build the bond of trust if she has been left to cry at naps.

hope this helps some.

[mamamei]

Thanks for your help!  Trust me, I don't want to leave her to cry.  I cringe every time I hear other mothers talk about how they leave their babies to cry for 30-60 minutes.  I just didn't know what else to do because every time I did PU/PD, she got more and more upset, and would even try to climb up my body and flail away.  Shush/pat stopped working as soon as she became mobile.  Now she just stands up and holds on to the edge of the crib waiting for me to pick her up.  I will try your suggestions though.  I do know that a few times it was because she was not ready for nap time yet, so after we took her out and gave her another 15-30 minutes, she was ready to go back down for a nap.  Her naps right now vary from 1-2 hours.  If she takes a longer nap, then I move her feeding to be a little later.

[creations]

I do know that a few times it was because she was not ready for nap time yet, so after we took her out and gave her another 15-30 minutes, she was ready to go back down for a nap.

When a LO is/has been a good napper protesting at nap time is a sign something is 'wrong' ie it's too soon for the nap or LO is protesting for some other reason.  Going to play for 10 or 15 mins is a good idea and if she then goes down well then it's certainly an indicator that the protest is due to UT.

Is there something, anything, that you have found that sooths her?  I feel it's pretty important to have a way of soothing and calming her so she feels reassured.  If not then just keep reassuring her that you are there for her.

My DS was such an independent sleeper that he wouldn't sleep in my arms at all, this made it hard at times.  One particularly bad night comes to mind when he was ill (or cutting teeth, I can't remember now!) and crying whether I put him in his cot or picked him up.  Real red in the face screaming blue murder sort of crying.  It appeared that nothing I did helped and nothing gave him any soothing, however I just held him and held him and kept on reassuring him that I was there for him.  He kicked, flailed, arched his back, oh it was horrible!  But when he eventually exhausted himself he snuggled (or collapsed) into my arms and slept.  It wasn't a great sleep and he still won't sleep in my arms unless he is really poorly but the long and short of it is that if he is having a hard time I want him to know for sure that he has my support, and I want to know for sure that he is not crying because he feels alone or abandoned.  I suppose it's like having an adult friend who is very sad or in a lot of pain, there is very little or nothing we can do to relieve them of their pain but we can sit by them and just let them know they are not alone and are loved.  I don't think anyone ever leaves an adult sobbing or with unbearable pain just because nothing they did had made it stop, you know?
I do know that it is very difficult when they are crying and crying and it appears our presence doesn't matter.  Perhaps this is the time they need us the most?  Run a song or a mantra through your own head to try to zone out of the sound of the crying if you can (I think Tracy suggested earplugs or headphones in one of the BW books!) as it can help to keep your own emotions under wraps during such a difficult period.

I hope this helps some xx

[mamamei]

Thanks so much.  It's nice to know that other people deal with this too!  Oh how I miss the days when my LO liked to cuddle and fall asleep in my arms!  Ever since she became mobile she is just so active and doesn't want to be held or rocked to sleep.  I will definitely try your suggestions at nap time though...it's a good analogy as far as not leaving an adult to cry.  (And ear plugs sound good!  Ha!)

[creations]

Sending you good vibes for naps x
Keep us posted.