Help with WIWO....or should I try something else????

[LucK]

I need some advice.  I wrote asking for help about a month ago with my LO’s NW.  Now she’s 10.5 months old and things are getting worse.  She used to wake once in the early morning for a feeding.  I tried W2S and then my DH tried to settle her to sleep instead of me and the NW continued. 

She just got over a teething bout (unfortunately no teeth cut through yet) and since she been waking twice a night.  My DH used to be able to settle her if she woke at night except in the early morning.  Now she just wants me, if my DH goes in she screams, eventually she settles but won’t go to sleep after he puts her down.  She stays awake just kicking etc.  after 15 or 30 min she starts calling.  We’ve given her almost 1.5 hrs to settle with my DH’s help but she wouldn’t sleep until I fed her and then she went to sleep on her own (still awake when I put her down).  This happened twice and since I’ve been feeding her twice per night.  Last night she woke for three feedings.  I know she’s not hungry but needs my boob to settle.  Also this am nap she wanted to feed before I put her down for a nap.  I didn’t, just sang to her a bit longer before I put her down.  She’s still awake and normally goes to sleep independently very quickly for the am nap.

I think my BF has become a habit especially at night.  I’m becoming a wreck and can’t seem to function anymore because I can never go back to sleep once I’m woken up.  My 3.5 year old is getting more clingy and upset over the smallest things.  I thought it was something developmental with her now I think it’s me and my moodiness causing this. 

I’m thinking I need to do WIWO to wean NF unless you have another suggestion. 

Question about WIWO.  When she calls at night,  I should just go to her, PU/PD say a key phrase and leave the room.  If she cries wait 10 to 30 sec and go to her, PU/PD say a key phrase and continue until she stops crying?

MY LO gets gassy when she cries and I will need to burp her so when I PU do I hold her for how long before PD. 

Any other tips, I’m getting stressed just thinking about this.  My DH is no help when it comes to this and will probably try to talk me out of it but this time I need to do something.

[Bex09]

Hi there, and hugs for the NW, they are tough I know.

OK, so it does sound like the BF has become a bit of a prop that your DD is needing to resettle. It is great that you are not feeding to sleep though and that she can fall asleep independently once you have fed her. At 10 mo your DD really doesn't 'need' 3 NF... but you know that, so I think things would get much better if you could wean them. It will be tough and there will be crying, but you can do this.

As for WI/WO, it is really more for use when getting back on track with older toddlers. So for example a LO who has previously been a good sleeper but has got off track with illness of teething. Now I know your NW have got worse since teething, but you have been having the NW for a while and you are also trying to wean the NF too. So IMO I think using WI/WO and trying to wean the feeds would probably be a lot for your DD to deal with. Also if she gets really worked up with crying to the point of you needing to PU and wind her then WI/WO is not really going to work. The whole point of it is that you do not PU or interact too much, so this would probably give mixed messages yk?

Have you tried PU/PD or GW? I think if your DH could settle, even though DD will cry, it would be easier as she will not expect him to feed her. If you do go down the PD route then really that is all you do at this stage and no PU if possible. Have you read this link?... http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=208990.0

Let us know what you decide, here to hold your hand.

[LucK]

Thanks...I read the link and I think I'll try the PD route.  I can't really depend on my DH to help me out.  Not that he's not willing but he can't handle crying and he will not be consistent so I need to do this on my own.

I just want to clarify.  When I go to her room I will not PU, I will only speak to her and place my hand on her?  Normally she falls asleep on her own so once she calms down but is awake, do I leave the room?  How long do I try to settle her with my voice and hand on her chest.  Even if she's crying for 30 min or more do I just continue speaking to her without PU?

I'm determined to do this even tonight so I don't talk myself out of it.  Thanks for the support.

[Bex09]

Hi there, PD sounds a good option to me. So to answer your questions, yes when your DD first cries (a proper cry not just a mantra cry) you will go to her and place a hand on her and use your sleepy phrase. Try to calm her this way and avoid PU as much as possible. If she gets really upset and frantic and you feel you HAVE to PU then just make sure that you put her straight back down after a quick calming cuddle.

Once she has calmed (and this may take some time) for now I would take away your hand and stand/sit by her crib and see what she does. If she cries again, then start your hand on her and phrase again until she settles. If she falls asleep then great and the next nap/night you can move a little further away once she has calmed and then eventually WO once she has calmed. Does that make sense?

I know you probably feel like she will never fall asleep, but she will honestly and you CAN do this. There will be crying and it will be hard, but it will be so worth while in the end to help your DD to resettle independently. Plus remember that you are always right there with DD and never leaving her so that she feels abandoned or alone at all. She will be crying as she is protesting at the lack of a feed and a change in what usually happens, keep that in mind. Good luck, with you all the way.

Are you totally weaning all NFs or still going to feed once?

[LucK]

So two nights later and things are going great.  I decided to do the PD only and wean all NFs.  My sister also coached me and suggested pretty much the same as you Bex09 and also said not to go in to my LO unless she is really crying continuesly for about 30 seconds.

I guess I've been on an autopilot for the past few months and altough I never go in at the first beep my LO makes, I do go in even if she's just grunting etc. 

The first night she woke up 3 times and settled each time on her own without me having to go in at all.  The first two wake ups she grunted/mantra cried for about 5 to 10 minutes.  The third time around 4am (her regular NF) she grunted for about 20 minutes on and off and then started to cry only for a few seconds and then quiet.  Then she started a louder cry and I was about to go in, my hand was on her door handle when the crying peaked and she went to sleep on her own.  She was up 6:10am for the day.

Last night she was up about 2 hrs after BT.  This was a different cry so my DH went in to burp her and she burped and she went back to sleep right away.  At around 3:45am she was up for about 10 minutes and went to sleep on her own.  She was up at 5:50 and I decided to start her day then.

I guess I will continue this.  I can't believe she didn't cry or protest more, I can actally see myself getting a full night sleep soon in the future.  I'm only worried that if she's sick or teething how to handle NWs.  Do you think only my DH should go in and settle any way he can and I'll BF only as the last resort?

Again thanks.

[Bex09]

Wow! What a fantastic update, so glad to hear that things are going so well.

It is often hard in the middle of the night to just hold back and see what your LO will do. I was terrible for jumping in to help too soon and not letting my DD sort herself out. Great that your DD can settle herself though.

As for teething or illness, these times are really difficult. We still often rely on APOP to resettle our DD at these times. As long as it doesn't go on for too long it rarely becomes a prop for us. If I were you though, I would try as far as possible to settle any way other than a BF. So a hand on her back or cuddles, etc if needed. By this point if your DD wakes and hasn't been having a NF, then you know that she doesn't need the feed, she needs you to comfort her yes, but not the feed yk? HTHs and hope all carries on going well.

[LucK]

My LO is now STTN but I'm wondering how to deal with EW.  Prior while she was NW, she would sometimes have EW.  Also she's going through 2-1 nap transition so she's taking short am/long pm naps.

Once we dropped night feedings, the first 3 morning she woke 6:10ish and we started our day.  The next two days she woke at 5:30, at first I thought I would do PD but wasn't sure how to handle it and also since there is a time change this coming weekend so 5:30am will become 6:30am.  So at 5:30 I went to start our day and as I was BF both morning she fell asleep and I put her back to crib and she slept till 7.  This morning she slept to 6am and was up for the day.

 How should I deal with EW after the time change?  Should I do PD and what do I do if she does not settle (since she probably woudn't go back to sleep),  when to stop PD and start the day. 

[Bex09]

That is fantastic news about the STTN hun!

As for the NW I would try to ride it out until the time change and then see what happens after that. So you could try PD, although like you say, she may not settle back after a full nights sleep. Is 5.30 an EW in terms of how many hours she has slept or just seems early to you? So what time is her BT now and how many hrs at night is she doing?

The 2:1 was the only time in C's life that she EW and did 10 hr nights, it is quite common at this point. One thing that we found was that the longer her day was, then the shorter her night would be. If we could get as close as possible to a 12hr day then the EW was not as bad. Down to OT from a long day I guess. Unfortunately as A times get longer then having a 12 hr day becomes difficult, again you might just need to ride it out as best you can.

[LucK]

Her day is about 12 hrs.  Her BT is 6:30/6:45 or sometimes sooner if tired.  I think the 5:30 WU is too early for her as she did sleep another hour after feeding.  I can also tell by the calls she makes.  If she wakes after 6, she tends to talk and call me playfully rather than crying and fussing.

I think in the next month or two there will be a lot of changes in terms of transitioning to 1nap.  She will be starting day care then too and will only get a catnap in the am. 

I suppose if PD will most likely not work, do you think I should continue feeding at 5:30 and putting her back to sleep or just try to keep her up.  I am afraid that the 5:30 will start to move earlier and earlier and will get NWs again.

[Bex09]

You are going to hate me for saying this but if your DD is doing an 11 hr night... 6.30 - 5.30 then that is really quite normal and not an EW. Anything less than a 10 hr night is classed as an EW. BUT, I would totally feel like 5.30 was too early so you have my sympathy.

As for feeding or not it is your call really. In some senses if she settles back quickly then it may be worth carrying on with although at your DD's age she shouldn't 'need' that feed. But after all your hard work to wean the NFs there is a risk that the WU will creep earlier and earlier and end up as a NF again. Technically if DD is going back to sleep after the feed then it is a NF anyway. Have you tried staying in her room with her, maybe lying on her floor to see if she settles that way? You could then gradually move further away each morning. PD may well work and is worth a try, especially if you think your DD is still tired.