Sorry - need advice again for now 2yo and GW & NW...

[Josie21]

Hi.
My DD (twin) has just turned 2yo. I thought we had cracked sleeping a few weeks ago when we got a GroClock and she seemed to understand straight away how it worked so that EW stopped within 2 days. I was delighted that she was finally STTN! It lasted about 2 weeks. 
However...    she is still not self-settling - DH puts her to bed for nap and bedtime and has to stay with her with his hand on her most of the time for her to sleep.
The last few nights, she has not dropped off until 8.30pm and I have had NW. LAst night was hideous. She was properly awake from 2.30am to 5.30am. I lay on floor next to cot with hand in and every time I took it slowly away, she squawked.  I have pneumonia and I am utterly knackered!
It made me think that the fundamental problem is the self-settling.  Does the fact that she has STTN mean she can self-settle so I should use WIWO? Or is it more relevant thatgetting her to sleep involves help?
Also, her twin brother was trained with WIWO and is no problem. However, because I am trying to spend more time with DD, he is doing a bit of wimpering when I leave the room, though it settles quickly. However, for this reason, I still want to put him to bed then take over from DH with DD.
Will this work? At bedtime, I propose that DH does stories with her until I appear. I will then do the last of her routine of setting the Groclock, having a last cuddle in the dark and then putting her into bed. I don't want to stimulate her by coming in but I feel I need to do the sleep training as DH was supposedly doing GW 6months ago and we are no further forward. 
At nap times, I will take DS up and then come down and take DD up since there is no story time or anything like that.
I am moving her from the guest room (they are in separate rooms) to her new room this evening.  I have had it decorated and we have been playing in it every night before bath time so that she is comfortable there and it's fair to say she loves the room so I am hoping the move will be good rather than disruptive.
My EASY (before these hideous NW) is: -

6.30am Wake
8.15am Breakfast
            Activity (usually away from the house softplay, park, music groups etc)
10.30am Snack (yogurt)
            continue Activity
12.00   Lunch
13.00   Up to bedroom (sleep by 1.30pm normally - no probs with  this normally)
15.00   Get up (snack - fruit)
            Activity (usually at home)
17.00   Dinner
            Activity (play in ball pool in large playpen, then play in new bedroomfor 10mins before)
17.45   Bath
18.00   Snack (warm custard)
            Quiet play in playpen with CBeebies bedtime hour & mum & dad
19.00  Bottle watching calming video
19.15  Up to bedroom for stories, cuddles.
19.35  In cotbed - asleep by 19.50 normally.

Thanks.

[Tweakster]

Hi there, bumping this for you   Sleep is known to go chaotic at 2, and SA can often be a big part of it.  Something that stands out to me, have you tried an earlier nap?  The nap seems quite late for a 6:30 waking - it's taking her a long time to go to sleep, it might be past her sleep window. Have you tried cutting out the TV before bed?  For some kids it stimulates rather than relaxes.  Same with a bath, where it can normally relax some kids, others it hyperstimulates. Maybe just go up earlier and do more stories and cuddles before bed.  I'd try an earlier bedtime to have her asleep by 7:30 if possible. 

Has she ever settled on her own?  Do you feel like you are a prop?  What were the sleep issues before the Gro-clock and how were they handled? 

I don't know about the logistics with twins...but I'm sure it's really hard!  (((hugs)))

[my3girlsjde]

So many hugs sweetie

I'm also wondering about the earlier nap as well. Is she teething by chance?Is she a restless sleeper? Do you have any white noise in there?

The other thing I'm wondering is if it's possible to keep them in separate rooms for a while as you're noticing some disturbance to your ds.

I'm a very big fan of gw. And depending on temperament it can get super.gradual iykwim. I rubbed my girls' backs at bedtime and do it when they get sick still. I'm still in the process of withdrawing from D's room after her last cold. Perhaps going from hand on the back to hand through the crib bars once she's drowsy and get her used to falling asleep with you there but not hand on back. Gradually get it to your hand next to her through the crib bars and then just you next to the crib. Then the door. I find normally by the time I get to the door stage she's doing pretty well. We do have some regressions but they do work out quickly.

[Josie21]

Hello both of you and thanks for your replies.
I had to just go ahead on the day I posted. The first time it took an hour and 10mins for her to fall asleep from when I took over from DH. Boy, I was on my chinstraps! Last night she was asleep within 20mins of lights out, though we'd been to a party in the morning and she only had an hour nap in the car on the way home.
I feel like I already learned a couple of things about how she needs me to help her. The first night, she fidgetted like mad (she bangs her legs on the bed over & over but I'm thinking this may be a mantra & I should let her do it without shushing. Do you agree?
She also did a little bit of a cry right before she finally let go. I think I did too much shushing when she was grunting at me (she want me to put my hand on her) & I did a shushhh but I think it may have stimulated her a little. I did a lot less the next night.
Tonight, she has taken 30mins to drop off and no crying. She said "mammy" a few times. Early on, I am speaking to her "shush, baby, it's time to go to sleep" - maybe just during the first 3 or 4mins. After that I'm just using a shushh and getting quieter. Does that sound ok.
I'm starting with sitting on a stool beside her cot. She is very bright & I have told her several times I am going to stay with her til she falls asleep and that even if she can't see me, I am still "close by" (don't want to lie to her).
I wonder how long I stay in this place? Until there is no grumbling or calling out? Or a set number of days?
Also the room is very small so I will struggle to make many steps away from her. Maybe next stage is sit in armchair. Then on floor by door? Will that be enough stages?
As for the other questions, they've been inseparate rooms since about 7mths as their sleep patterns were so different.
She still has a couple of teeth to go and I have been medicating at bedtime as a precaution. If she wakes for more than a few minutes in the night, I give her meds too (if it after 2am).
I think she could nap earlier but the twin thing comes in and I just can't get them that far out of synch and no matter what I do, DS won't drop off before 1.40pm!
I reckon I need to get her up by 3pm though to have enough A time before bed.
I also take your points about tv etc but we only have a cery chilled thing on (the same thing every night so relaxing rather than stimulating) and we have a good half hour of stories and cuddles.
I think there is a bit of SA & she seems so happy having her cuddle with me before bed. She is quite spirited, yet cuddles into me like a lamb. It is doing us both good I feel. :')
I hope you don't think I'm ignoring your advice about tv and bedtime. Oh, bedtime can't come earlier if I am to put DS to bed first (& I must do him first as I can leave him awake to settle himself whereas DD has never gone to sleep on her own.
Xxxx

[Josie21]

Hi.
I was just wondering if anyone has advice on how long to do each stage (how do I know to move on) & what other stages I could do in a small room (see above)?
Many thanks.
Jo
Xxxx

[my3girlsjde]

Sorry it's taken so long to get back

 I'm terrible at the telltale signs so I wait until things seem to be going well and make an attempt. You can always go back.

Does that make sense?