Hysterical 17.5mth old at bedtime/NW - Help!

[murphy76]

Hi,

Ive poured over the 18 mth sleep regression pages and it sounds like we could have this, with a bit of teething thrown in. two nights ago DS was up from 130am-6am and last night would not go down until DH took him in the car and lifted him in after battling for 1.5hrs.

DS's usual routine is

wakes: 6-630am
nap 12/12.30-2/2.30 (in his creche so i cant change this)
bedtime: 7-730am

This has been for months now and all went swimmingly.

If we are hitting this tricky stage, i want to know with wi/wo do you cuddle them? DS is standing up wailing when we leave, stops when we go in, tries to get out of the cot and wails again when we leave, all the time this builds up until he will never settle as is too upset. with wi/wo do you just keep doing this, walk thru the door, say you need to go to sleep and leave? if i pick him up to lie him down he thinks he is being lifted out and goes even more mental when he realises im not doing this!

what is the advised afternoon a time? if he wakes in creche at 2.30pm is it too early for bed at 7 or is 730pm better?

its the crying that hurts. it stops when we go in but starts the minute we leave. i cant/dont want to listen to it too long, but i know there is nothing really wrong as it stops once we go in or lift him out.

if this is just a phase, if the only way we can get him calmed or to sleep is by driving him is this a disaster and will he want this all the time even after this period is over?

any advice/help welcome. i am heart scared that as we are at the beginning of this, what we do next is so important and if we mess it up in these early days we'll blow it for months.

thanks!

AM

[*Becky*]

Hi,
Sorry things are so rough right now. You mention he is teething. Are you medicating for this?

I think at this age it is best to look at the day as a whole so if he wakes at 6am I would aim to have him asleep at 7pm. If it is 6.30am then 7.30pm should be fine. That is presuming he takes a good 2 hour nap. If less then you could probably bring bedtime forward half an hour or so.

With WIWO I would not life him up, just lay him down, say your sleep phrase and leave. Repeat, repeat. If he is teething badly WIWO is not really recommended. Having said that as long as you know he is not in pain then it is fine.

xx

[Shannon14]

I would try a 7:30 bedtime. Take him outside early evening, have him run around and wear him out.  Do you have a solid bedtime routine? I know our guy sometimes gives us grief if we try to speed up the process, but if we give him plenty of story time and snuggle/lullaby time, he's fine to put down.  When I'm snuggling with him, I give him warnings that it's almost time for him to go in his crib.  If he starts to get upset when I try to put him in the first time, it tells me he needs some more snuggle time. I'll say "ok, we'll snuggle a little bit more and then it's time to go nighty night." Sounds like you'll still Struggle for a while, but after several nights of the exact same thing he'll be able to prepare himself and might not be as upset.  You could give it a try.  It works well for us.

[Shannon14]

I should mention that if I tell him I'm giving him more snuggle time it's only for about 2 more minutes, and then I put him in his crib and walk away no matter what.  If he does cry, he's at the stage that he'll usually just cry it out for about 10 minutes and he knows I won't be coming back.  If he does get himself worked up then I'd do wi/wo.

[murphy76]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I assume he is teething, but its not like the pain looks unbearable for him. we are medicating though, hands in his mouth etc.

In the past week we have had 3/6 night wakings, all for 2.5-3.5 hours. plus it is taking about 30-45mins for him to go down at night. we were away for  a couple of days at easter and he was running around with his cousins so should have been plenty tired.

IN the evening we are putting him down, then as he cries immediately either me or DH are going in, talking to him, asking him to lie down etc. then every time we try to leave, even after 5-10mins when he is lying down and looks like he is asleep, if he hears us leave he is up and crying. i know this is a some sort of cross between wi/wo and GW, am i using the worst of both worlds?

last night was the worst yet, he went down about 7.30pm finally but woke at 10.30pm and that was him until nearly 2am. every time i thought he was asleep and left the room, after 5 mins or so id hear him crying and would have to go back in.

As i said before i just dont want to start smth that i have trouble stopping him doing when this 'phase' (which we hope it is!) is over.

I am trying to stick to the 13hr days which he has always had, and will continue to do so. even though like today his form is awful as he is shattered!

Will i just keep at it like im doing or is there anything else i can tweak/cut out? its back to work tmrw and i am dreading being this tired with a full day ahead...

Thanks again for any help,

AM

[*Becky*]

teething often brings out SA and it sounds like this is what is going on. I would medicate half an hour before bedtime to start with. BW do not condone any form of CIO or CC as Tracy Hogg, the BW believed it broke the trust between parent and baby so we need to find a gentle approach for this.
If he seems very tired you could try bedtime a bit earlier, his days do not have to be 13 hours long. Teething often makes them more tired so he 'could' be getting a second wind by the time he goes to bed.
I would not worry about starting something you might have to break....when lo's are sick or teething they often need extra reassurance and once they are back to normal if you are consistent with a sleep training method you will be fine.

[murphy76]

Thanks Becky.

We're not into CIO ourselves either, thats why i appreciate all the info and advice on here.

Usually when he is teething we can tell but this time the crying stops when we are in the room, even though he has been quite upset until we got there, so its a puzzler. but his hands are in his mouth plenty, and we'll keep an eye out.

this morning he woke at 5.30am and my husband went in and sat with him, and for the next 45mins he just played in his cot and lay down, altough DH said as soon as he moved in the slightest he looked up to check he was still there. DH reckons if this was during the night he would have gone back to sleep but as he already had a full 10hrs sleep he was awake and maybe just wasnt that tired.

Going by your advice though becky we should be putting him down then at 6.30pm latest this evening? it just seems so early and we are afraid that if he has another 10hr night then that means up for the day at 4.30am. But i am guessing you are working off the premise that if he goes down before he is OT then he will sleep longer and we might get 11-12hrs out of him?

As we cannot change his creche nap, its 1230-230 usually, if we put him down at 630pm then thats only a 4hr A time. is this suffice or in this case does the need for a longer A time override the worry about a 13hr+ day? we always have problems trying to judge this, whats your experience?

[*Becky*]

I think if he has been up since 5.30am he will need an earlier bedtime than usual. If he has not napped until 12.30pm that is 7 hours A time which is huge so keeping it shorter the other side is fine and yes i would probably have him asleep by 6.30pm. With the first A being so long and the early start he should be tired by then but you will have to see.

[Shannon14]

The NW/EW issue sounds exactly like what has happened to us on and off. With our little guy, he's been much better for about a week now and I don't think it's coincidence that his sleep improved after his molar popped through.  We were always saying the same thing you are... We felt that it COULD have been his teeth because we knew they were coming in and he always had his hands in his mouth, but we thought "if he stops crying the minute we walk in, it must not be because he's in pain, otherwise he'd keep crying regardless of who was or wasn't in the room with him." I think teething could be at play here. I would give him lots of snuggles at bedtime and try medication of some sort.

[murphy76]

Thanks guys.

By the time we saw your post ;past night Becky it was already 730pm and we'd spent 30mins battling to get him down, and it took about another 15mins so perhaps OT here, we'll defo try the earlier bedtime.

That said, he slept through to 615am to 10.5hrs which we're delighted with. if this kept up i could certainly forgive the battles getting him to sleep as im sure this will come with tweaks.

Thanks for your experience with the teething as well Shannon, we'll keep this up and if it is indeed this then hopefully things will be back to normal sooner rather than later.

I guess we are always looking for the answer that is "do this and everything will be back to normal" but unfortunately its never like this with the wee monkeys and the sooner we realise, the better!