Climbing out cot, moved to BBB now taking hours to sleep

[*Ali*]

Cadan is 28mo and just yesterday we have taken the sides off his cotbed as he was climbing out when going down at nap and BT. Only now instead of climbing out he is just getting out of bed and opening the door and crying for us at the gate across his room door. Then if we go back he slams the door and runs back to bed. He is so loud yelling and banging the door even when not crying. even when we're there that he's repeatedly waking his little brother who is 8mo.
Last night cadan took 1.5hrs of repeatedly getting out of bed until he fell asleep on his own after me tucking him on for the millionth time. He sttn for 11.5hrs even practically sleeping through falling out of bed and me putting him back in.
Today DH and I spent 3hrs  trying to put him down for a nap from 1.30-4.30pm with no luck. We spent the first hour putting him back in bed and the next hour DH sat by the bed with him. The last hour I say by the bed with him but he was pretty much constantly trying to get out if I tried to keep him in there. We mostly just stayed silent after initially explaining what he needed to do. At one point he laid down with his little hand on me and I thought he would sleep but he just started bouncing his feet against me and shouting songs. In the end I set my phone alarm to go off and told him that meant nap time was over and that since he hadn't slept we just had time for dinner and then he'd have to go to bed early. I felt like I shouldn't give in put it was well past a reasonable naptime and he was no nearer going down than he had been when we started. Normally I wouldn't try for so long for a nap on the rare occasion he refused them but I felt if I could just see it through it would set us up for a shorter fight next time.
Thankfully DH did BT and cadan was so shattered he was asleep within 15mins but DH had to wait in the room until he was asleep.

I am dreading naptime tomorrow since DH will be back at work and I'll be on my own with the two of them. Colby needs to sleep at the same time normally and either gets OT waiting or gets woken up if I put him down before Cadan. DH says I should just drop the nap but I don't think he is ready as he is really grumpy on no nap days unless we stay home all day and has nws (for quick tuck in) whenever I do more than no nap day in a row. Otherwise he has sttn for ages and ages.

He has been an independent sleeper since 6mo apart from normal hiccups when sick etc. When I do wiwo. Lately he has played up, I'm guessing from the 0-1 meaning he gets UT or OT if he does or doesn't have a nap. It has been much worse since he learnt to climb out the cot this week though. And stripping off his clothes and nappy has also become a favourite this week.

I've been reading the bbb sticky but no one seems to behaving such persistent trouble or another lo to avoid waking.

Help me or just hold my hand?

[j.and.e]

Must admit I stopd pd.in them 2gethr after the same issues. I did car nap, no nap or late short nap. We dropd nap at 28mo but wud have kept nap/Quiet time for longer except that nap-shenanagans were waking the baby! Xx

[*Ali*]

Oh they are not in the same room BTW. Goodness me no but he is so loud ds2 gets woken in the other room even with white noise on.

I wish I could get a car nap but I'd have to drive around for an hour unless it was really really late before he would drop off and ds2 would probably be crying as he dislikes the carseat.

[Jenn+Ethan+Emily]

Ugh, (((((hugs))))) Ali. Ethan has been in his BBB for a year now and he still does this same thing. We have basically put him to bed at a set time, and more or less ignore him Unless he has a genuine request, of course. I don't know if this is a good plan, but we have tried everything. I also think that at some point, he just isn't tired exactly when we say go to bed I know I'm not tired at 10pm every single night. So we let him play "quietly" in his room. We get yelling, screaming, kicking the walls, jumping off furniture, throwing everything out of his room over the gate, etc. but we don't pay any attention to it and it stops very quickly. Emily does wake sometimes though so we just crank the white noise and figure it's part of having two He could probably drop his nap or at least have it capped but I would prefer him to nap TBH and deal with the night time stuff After about a week of not napping because of the BBB, he just sort of gave into that and it hasn't been a problem. He goes straight to sleep at nap time.

It's tough, I hope someone comes along with a suggestion that works!

[katie80]

Oh yuk, Ali, (((hugs))). Not enough time for a proper reply tonight, but I'll be back tomorrow.

[georgeo]

Putting a towel over the top of the door might help with noise if it's from slamming it. One of the BW mommas suggested that on another thread, I just forget which brilliant one it was:)

[*jazzberry*]

((((hugs))))) we have had this with ds1 and ds2. I'm afraid the only thing that worked for us was ignoring, although I appreciate this is tricky with a baby in the house. What happens if you ignore him in the evening? Is he actually upset or just making a racket? Because if he is not actually upset then I think going in to tuck him in etc will only prolong the issue iykwim. For us nightime didn't take long for them to get the idea, admittedly naptime was a little trickier. We had lots of no nap days and early bedtimes but they did both eventually get it.

[teilvnav]

Nathan tried this type of stuff for a few nights when we switched him, but it didn't last long. Don't lose hope; he might just need a bit of time to adjust!

[*Ali*]

Thanks for your support ladies. It's nice to know it didn't last too long for most of you. Can I ask what you actually did? DH is sitting with him at BT for the 15mins or so it is taking him to fall asleep but I'm worried about it becoming a prop and it feels like such a huge step backwards. Not to mention it messes up our evening.
Nap was a bust again. He spent an hour in the room just trashing it basically. I tried saying I just needed to put colby down and would be back in 5mins and he said he would wait nicely in bed but he was out immediately. I tried saying he could read a book in bed as long as he was quiet but he didn't. I don't have anywhere else to put all his toys so he doesn't have access to them so I don't see ignoring him if not upset as an option.

[barbaraz78]

Can I follow along? My DS is in a similar age and I expect we'll also need to transition him before or later (hopefully later:. So it is interesting to know other mums' suggestions, as the getting out of bed is the thing that I am more worried about thinking on BBB.

[katie80]

Ok, finally back.  I agree with most PPs that it's really normal and likely just a stage. 

DH is sitting with him at BT for the 15mins or so it is taking him to fall asleep but I'm worried about it becoming a prop and it feels like such a huge step backwards.

I'm sure it does feel like a step backwards, but I think that's how it goes with lots of transitions.  I don't think it'll become a prop as you can always do GW to get back out of the room once he's used to sleeping in the BBB.  I remember Stef did this with Aiden a little bit after Neve was born and it did take a little while, but he did go back to independent sleep.  It might be worth PMing her.

We never had issues at BT, but naps were terrible for a good couple weeks after Graham was born (she'd been in the BGB for over a month by that time).  She was OT, and I knew she really needed a nap, but she fought me tooth and nail.  I tried all the tricks:  I'll be back to check on you in 2 min/5 min/10 min; gave her a book to read and then she could fall asleep; tried lying down with her; etc, etc.  Because she was so tired, she just had no impulse control and basically didn't know what to do with herself.  I ended up standing outside her door, holding it shut (I know not the best option, but we didn't have a gate and she was big enough to climb over one at the time anyway), and just repeatedly telling her to go lie down in bed and close her eyes (just like I did when she got OT in her crib and called me back over and over).  It took about 1 hr the first day, 30 min the second day, and that was it.  She just needed to know that it was still nap time, and I expected her to sleep.  She continued to nap daily for a few months after that and still has rest time in her room everyday now (naps one or two days a week, usually).  Claire never played with her toys much, just basically wanted out of the room.  When she did play with them, I put them all in her toy bucket and pulled it out of the room.  She doesn't have all that many toys in her room, though, so I'm afraid I don't have much of a solution for that.  Also, her room is downstairs and away from Graham's, so it was ok that she made a lot of protesting noise.

I think that if you believe he still needs the nap, which it sounds like you do, it's worth fighting for.  Claire is a classic OT NWer, so I knew she needed to keep it or I'd be waking with two kids in the night, which I really didn't want to do.  Could you sit outside his room (out of sight maybe, depends on his temperament) and continue to tell him he needs to lie down and go to sleep?  You may need to get louder white noise for Colby or enlist some help for a few days.  It may well just be a stage and once he gets over the newness of being able to get out of his bed, he'll go back to napping. 

(((Hugs))) Ali, it's frustrating to come to these transitions when he's been sleeping well for so long.  But rest assured, this too shall pass.  (I had to tell myself that a million times during the heat of the moment. )

[*jazzberry*]

DS1 used to trash his room too. Then shout, bang and generallly mess about. BUT it did pass eventually and he took naps again without too much trouble. I would just say that if you are going in to him, sitting with him etc or reacting to what he does then he will soon learn that this will get your attention, and may possibly prolong the issue. Is there any way you could minimise the amount of trashing he can do??
I also took the view that as he was no longer confined to his cotbed the bedroom became the new bed iyswim. That it didn't matter if he was quiet/sleeping (I know it does - but, just to start with) as long as he was in his room. My friends DS regularly used to fall asleep on the floor by his gate, she just used to transfer him to bed when she went to bed. That didn't last for long either.

[*Ali*]

We obviously have too many toys because he has a whole toy chest and that amount again, not to mention the sit in car and big toys in his room. And all his clothes he pulls out of the wardrobe and chest of drawers. I really do have nowhere else to put them.

When DH sits in with him he does keep silent and just returns him to bed if he tries to get out but leaves him to do whatever he wishes in the actual bed like jump or sing or kick the wall. It is only taking 15mins or so at BT now but then he is really exhausted from not having naps since the transition 4 days ago. For naps he just messes around for ages as he is not as tired obviously as he is a BT on no nap days. Although before the move he was going down within a few minutes at those nap times so he was tired enough and should still be. We only had trouble when activities pushed his nap too late and he got OT.

I'm home alone again this afternoon and have not even tried to do a nap for him today. I just know it will be a miserable hour for both of us and he won't nap anyway.

[barbaraz78]

I'm home alone again this afternoon and have not even tried to do a nap for him today.

What about doing quiet time with TV o a book on the sofa during nap time? I know it is not ideal, but there is a chance that he fall asleep. And at least he catches up some sleep that he needs...

[*Ali*]

Funny you should say that Barbara as he is on the sofa watching tv as I type. He has never fallen asleep doing so before so I would be surprised if he did tbh. It's 4.35 now anyway so I'll just have to do early BT and aim to have him asleep for 7ish.