how to increase daytime calories to reduce night wakings?

[nidnoodle]

I received such helpful advice when I posted about issues with naps and feeds a few weeks ago that I thought you might be able to help with this query too.  The last week my LO has woken every two hours for a feed and although this could be part of his next growth spurt (he's 15 weeks) I suspect there's an element of waking hungry because he's not tanked up enough in the daytime or because he's woken and having a drink is an easy way to get back to sleep (he's never slept through the night and generally wakes 3 hours after his dream feed and then 2-3 hours after his NF depending on how full a feed he manages).

I've re-read Tracy's Sleep Interview (http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=451.0) where she says night wakings due to hunger should be tackled by increasing feeds during the day.  She recommends feeding every hour if need be for a few days to get the baby used to the increased amount of milk so that then he will be able to take the extra ounces of milk in one feed later on.  But my question is how do you do this without going completely off track with EASY or potentially creating a baby who gets used to snacking or having to eat before his sleep time?  My LO is quite definite about when he doesn't want any more milk and as feeding is tricky at the best of times I can't see how I can make him eat when he doesn't want to.  Today for example he's eaten more clustering between 5-7pm than he has the rest of the day and when I put him to bed after a massive drink he didn't settle because he was still hungry.  I could hardly believe it and wondered if he was simply after some boob to help him sleep but sure enough he had another massive drink, came off awake when he'd had enough and then settled himself to sleep after about 10 minutes.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts x

[~Sara~]

My LO is quite definite about when he doesn't want any more milk and as feeding is tricky at the best of times I can't see how I can make him eat when he doesn't want to.

I think overall, you have to know your baby when coming up with a plan.  My DD is the same way and when she's done, she's done.

That said, I completely understand Tracy's reasoning about just doing the cluster feeds all day for a week simply because it is short-term.  It's only a week, and you wouldn't actually feed to sleep.  Just more feeds during the A part of the routine.  Winddown would still come right before sleep.

But then that begs the question: are his NWs due to hunger or a routine issue?  Do you care to post his EAS routine?  Also, do you feel that your supply is okay (I know I struggle with mine some days, especially since AF is threatening to come back).  If so, then the more frequent feeds will help stimulate that, too.

[anna*]

Some babies - like mine - wont take more in the day UNTIL they're taking less at night. I would always resettle without feeding if it's been less than four hours since the last feed, just so they get the idea that it IS possible to go back to sleep at night without a boob!

[nidnoodle]

Dear Sara and Anna
Thank you for your replies, I guess the thing I forget in all this is that any changes aren't forever and any seeming steps back can be redressed!  His EASY is so erratic because he's a 30 minute napper in spite of all my efforts to get him to go longer so I hardly think it worth posting.  Suffice to say though last night I waited until he actually woke, eyes wide open and complaining before I fed him and sure enough he went longer (2.40, 5.30, 8.15).  He's definitely going through a growth spurt and was doing all sorts of acrobatics in his sleep in the run up to waking and when I propped him up between the cushions this morning he leant forward and managed to hold himself there (always seems to be some big developmental leap after a tricky patch).

Today I offered him food every hour and he seemed to eat less than ever.  By late afternoon when he was tired he seemed to be really fussing on the boob while definitely still being hungry so I tried him on the other and he drank more happily so perhaps he's draining his milk more efficiently and now needs both where one has always been fine before.  He's had a good drink this evening and as he suffers with wind pain if not burped he generally goes down in his cot awake and settles himself.  I think what Anna said is really relevant though and I need to block my ears to his hunger warning grunts and snuffles so instead of snacking at night time he has a full feed.  Good progress last night at least so time will tell if he goes as long tonight with what seems like less food today.

thanks for taking the time to share your experiences - much appreciated x

[anna*]

If was feeding Audrey every hour she'd be furious. It would upset her tummy and she would only take sips and get no good hind milk. Personally, in your situation I would feed three hourly during the day (unless he asks for it sooner), and use breast compressions to keep him on for as long as poss and get as much in as poss. When he's finished, take a 15 mins break and then try again for a little top up. Then leave it until 3 hrs from the start of the first feed (or 2.5hrs if that's going to interfere with naps). Then overnight, ignore anything that is not a full-on cry, and try to resettle without feeding if it's less than 4 hrs since the last night feed. Counter-intuitively, fewer feeds can mean more calories going in as they will feed for longer and actually take on more volume.

[RachelC]

Popping this over to breast feeding, as at this point it's more of a feeding issue 

[Fiver]

At 15 weeks, it could completely be the 4m GS, at which point I would seriously consider whether withholding a feed at night is a good idea.  Lots of BF babies still need a NF at 15w (gosh, a lot still need one at 6-10m!)

What sort of time are you doing the DF/NF?

[nidnoodle]

apologies for posting in the wrong place (did that before and it was moved to here so thought I'd got it right this time!) and didn't know how to reply on the new thread.

So LO was definitely having a growth spurt when I first posted - he woke for a feed at 2 and 6am the next night andthen went through to 5.40am today.  I couldn't believe it and kept waking expecting him to stir.  The conclusion I've come to since the burst of frequent feeding is that he can now get what he needs in much less time.  I keep a log and he's generally fed for 120-140 minutes over 24 hours.  Yesterday he did 95 minutes and went through the night for the first time!  Bizarre but brilliant although I'm not banking on the same again tonight.  I had been dream feeding at 11pm in the hope that it would push his first night feed later but I was getting to tired going to bed that late so now do it between 10-10.30pm. 

[Fiver]

I seem to remember that it's recommended that the DF is given some time between 10 - 11pm, so that seems ok.
Glad things seem to be improving after the GS