Nap cycles

[*Kara*]

Hi hun... I would split the difference on BT and put down at 645pm

As for pushing A times - you will generally get resistance to going down followed by a short nap (UT leading to OT) or short naps (UT).

[kthow3]

Sorry, one more question:  how do you tweak BT if he SN's?  Just wondering how flexible I need to be with BT or if that is something that should remain consistent.  Typically, even if he wakes up earlier than 4:00 from a nap, I put him down after a 3 hr A time, but wonder if that is the right way to do it.  Some days He doesn't seem too tired but I don't want him to get OT, and he has very subtle drowsy signs, so it is easy to miss his window.  And, in the AM when I go into his room in the morning, he is typically already awake.  There are days when he is exhausted and ready for his nap at 9:00-9:30, and I wonder if he woke up earlier than 7 but did not make any noise, therefore I did not know he was awake.  For example, today:
Wake- 7:00 (my husband heard my DS kicking in his crib as my husband was awake already)
Nap- 9:45-12:00 (woke up by my husband)    he was still tired when he was woken up from this nap
Nap 2:45-3:45
BT- 6:45

Just curious on your thoughts- you have been so helpful and I feel so much more able to handle my DS's naps/sleeping
 

[*Kara*]

how do you tweak BT if he SN's

Really depends on how well he handles OT hun.  My DD does really well with it though she is prone to EW if it goes on too long (like right now - don't get me started O_o  ).  If he does alright with it and the nap was at least an hour, you can push a touch to get close to your normal BT.  Lots of moms have success subtracting the missing amount of nap from their ideal BT and put down then...

So, if you want a 7pm BT and LO naps for 1 hr (you want 1 hr 30mins), you subtract that 30 mins of missed nap from 7pm and put down for the night at 630pm, with the hope that LO will tack on that missed nap bit to his night.

And, in the AM when I go into his room in the morning, he is typically already awake

Two ways to handle this one - give in and put him down when he appears to be tired (possibly running the risk of creating an EW habit) or, stick to your goal nap time based off of your goal wake time.  So if 2 hrs A time, and 7am wake time, nap at 9am.

[kthow3]

Hey Kara!  Hoping you can look at my son's past few days with sleeping and see if you see anything problematic- he woke up this morning at 5:00, which is unusual for him.  I nursed him, put him back down, and woke him again at 7:45.  There have been a few other issues, I will explain throughout the schedule...
Thursday May 24
Woke: 6:20
Sleep: 9:00-11:30
Sleep: 2:20-3:30
BT: 6:30

Friday
Woke: 7:00
Sleep: 9:10-11:45 (he was exhausted at 9:00)
Sleep: 2:15-4:00
BT: 7:00

Saturday
Woke: 7:05
Sleep: 9:45-11:30
Sleep: 2:20-3:30 (still tired when woke from this nap)
BT: 6:30

Sunday
Woke: 7:05
Sleep: 10:00-12:15 (could have gone down earlier but were at church)
Sleep: 3:15-4:30 (still tired when woke- we woke him)
BT: 7:20

Monday
Woke: 7:05
Sleep: 9:45-12:05
Sleep: 2:45-3:55
BT: 7:00

Tuesday
Woke: 7:15 (I woke him)
Sleep: 9:45-11:30
Sleep: 2:45-4:15 (still tired when woke)
BT: 7:25 (I put him down a few minutes later to see if this helped him wake better rested in the mornings as he was waking still tired)

Wednesday
Woke: 6:15
Sleep: 9:15-10:55
Sleep: 1:45-3:30 (still tired when woke)
BT: 6:15 (he was crying by this point, and clearly tired so I put him down at 6:00 and he fell asleep at 6:15)

Thursday
Woke: 4:50 (I nursed him and put him back in his crib, fell asleep at some point and slept until 7:45 when I woke him)
Sleep: 10:45- this is where we are now

Sorry for the long post, just hoping you could critique his routine and notice any issues.  I am thinking he is OT, but am unsure how to fix it at this point.  Yesterday he took 1.5 hour naps, but that didn't seem to be enough.  I was thinking about your last post and how you wrote that your LO has EW's if OT goes on too long and am wondering if that is what is going on in my case.  Any thoughts?  Thanks!

[kthow3]

Oh, and one more thing.  The last 3 days, for the afternoon nap, it has taken him about 25-30 minutes to fall asleep, whereas before it was taking 10-15 (granted this pattern had only been going on for 2 weeks).  I don't know if this means he is ready for an A increase??? 

[*Kara*]

hmmm... that's a lot of sleep hun!  I can't imagine that he is hugely OT at all.  He does seem to really need it though as you are waking him in the morning and from some naps...

I would maybe leave him be in the morning (if he wakes at 5/530, nurse and put back down - he could well be hungry/thirsty at this time).  Then leave him to wake on his own.  it could just be that the constant waking is too much for him.

Teething?  New skills like crawling/pulling to stand?

I am going to get another set of eyes to see if something jumps out (my DD is low sleep needs and hasn't slept this much since she was about 3 months old!).

[kthow3]

He is in the process of learning to crawl.  Poor little guy just wants to be on the move! He has figured out commando crawling okay but still seems to be working on hands and knees crawling. As for teething, he is extra drooly and has been sticking everything in his mouth, but that's pretty typical for every baby, right?
He woke from his afternoon nap after 45 minutes and was pretty cranky. I tried putting him down after 2.25 hours (subtracting the 45 mins from 3 hours) and he talked and kicked from 6:15-6:50. I am assuming he slept from 6:50-9:30, when I heard him kicking/talking again. He then started crying at 10:15, I went in, rocked him a few minutes, changed diaper, he was content, I put him back down. That's where we're at now. His morning nap was an hour and 45 minutes.  Thanks a bunch!

[*Kara*]

He woke from his afternoon nap after 45 minutes and was pretty cranky. I tried putting him down after 2.25 hours (subtracting the 45 mins from 3 hours) and he talked and kicked from 6:15-6:50

UT for that nap.  You only really need to cut the A time after a short nap by about 20-30 mins regardless of nap length.

[kthow3]

Sigh.  This morning he woke at 5:45, he went back to sleep until 8:00 (I decided to heed your advice about letting him sleep), Then slept from 11-1, was put down at 3:55 (fell asleep at 4:10) and slept until 4:50.  I just pushed the 2nd nap A time yesterday by 15 minutes to see if we would get a longer nap (yesterday's 2nd nap was 1hr 20min).  Should I keep the same A time for the next few days?  Or drop it back to 3 hours? 

[*Kara*]

I would hold it for a few days - you really need to be consistent with any changes for 3-5 days to see if a change will happen.

[kthow3]

The past 5 days I have been putting my ds down for his second nap after he had been awake for 3 hours, hoping for a 3:15 A time, but he ends up being A for 30 mins before falling asleep, then only sleeping for 50.  It seems like right around 2:50 or so of being A he get super energetic and is not winding down; either he is OT at that point or UT. How do I decipher between the two? His first nap the last 5 days have all been around 2 hours.  Should I drop the awake time back or lengthen?

[kthow3]

So, my LO took a long AM nap (9:30-12:00), I put him in his crib at 3:00 (keeping the 3:15 A time idea) and 45 minutes later he is still "razzing" in his crib.  What to do, what to do?  He is not crying, just razzing and kicking up a storm in there.  I didn't want to extend/decrease A times until someone responded (I am not blaming, I know everyone's busy!) but now I wish I had extended his A time.  I was also looking for a post on different nap lengths and if they are OT/UT... anyone know where those are posted?

[*Kara*]

Nap lengths:

30 mins or less:  OT
45 mins is generally UT but can be OT.  You will know which by LO's mood when waking - super grumpy would be an OT nap, happy as larry but then tired after less than a normal A time would signal UT.

That AM nap is far too long hun.  Typical day sleep is max 3 hours at this age.  If that morning nap is generally 2 hrs and longer and he is resisting a PM nap, I would actually cap the AM at 1 hr 30 mins to ensure he is tired enough for the PM nap and then put him down after 3 hrs A time to start with.  If he still resists, push to 3 hrs 15 mins.  Let him wake on his own from the PM nap.

[kthow3]

Need help over here! I am going crazy! Yesterday, after my son's 2.5 hr meganap, I put him down at 3:00, he razzed and kicked for 1hour, then started crying. I tried for 20 mins to soothe him to sleep, which did not work. I got him up, and he was suuuuper cranky, so I put him down at 5:30. He fell right to sleep, then woke at 6:05 screaming (OT). He fell back to sleep at 6:50 with little help from me, as when he gets like this he is inconsolable. I try, but don't accomplish much. He slept until 7:30 this morning. He looked very tired when he woke, and at 9:45 I thought I'd try putting him down. He was in his crib at 10, and started up with the razzing. After 15 minutes, trying to prevent what happened last evening, I went in and read a few more books in the dark and sung, putting him back in his crib at 10:25. Again with the razzing and happiness, with no sleep! This is what caused me to seek help in he first place- he was spending long periods of time in his crib talking and playing, and it drives me nuts! I feel like I don't know my son at all; I can't figure out when he is tired! Anyways, what to do now? Increase A times again? I feel like we just did this, had 2 good weeks, and now have to do it all over again! These babies keep up on our toes!

[kthow3]

Sorry, just need to vent more, since my LO is still awake and razzing in his crib (I am waiting for him to start crying).  I just don't understand why one day a 3hr A time is good, then the next he just doesn't sleep at all!  Shouldn't there be some sort of gradual transition where it takes longer for them to fall asleep or something?  It seemed like one day last week (Thursday- the day I posted our schedule) he just changed his mind and decided things were going to be different!  I wonder if something else is going on; it seems like this keep happening, where he will sleep well for a few weeks, then abruptly shift to sleeping poorly/not sleeping at all (which frustrates me!).  I just wonder if it is something I am doing, or need to do differently.  He is a miserable little guy when he is not sleeping well, and I am tired of trying to figure out what to do to "fix" his sleeping issues!