Need Help with NW

[katie80]

Yeah, you're making progress and with the teething, most people would be getting the wakings you're getting now anyway...

Agreed.

Also, if you're going to do the morning CN, I'd not let it go over 30 min and a good rule of thumb for the pm nap is 3 hr later.  I'm guessing that's why she fought you a bit at the pm nap today. 

Yay for the AC!!!

[MommySteezy]

I thought that I probably let the CN go a little long. If I have to do it again I will cut it to 20-30 mins max. Do you think a CN was the right way to go, or should I have done an early 1 nap and an early BT? I just didnt want us to get caught in a cycle of EW. That makes sense, right?

Do either of you have any ideas for getting making the transition back to bed at that EW easier? I really want her to stay in asleep until at least 7:00, or I feel like I will have to do a CN in the morning so her BT isn't too early.

[katie80]

Do you think a CN was the right way to go, or should I have done an early 1 nap and an early BT? I just didnt want us to get caught in a cycle of EW. That makes sense, right?

Yes, it makes sense to me, as long as the CN is short enough.  Eventually, the CN can reinforce the EW and needs to be phased out, but I don't think you're at that point.  My DD could do the short am CN and longer pm nap when she EWd (less than 10.5 hr night sleep) and was teething until 2 yr old, but that's really quite late.

Do either of you have any ideas for getting making the transition back to bed at that EW easier?

Part of it is likely the teeth.  Teeth are notorious for playing a factor in EW.  You could try a dream med (like a DF, but you just stick the syringe in and push out the meds) at ~3 am to see if it helps her either sleep through or settle better.  Another factor is that she's not fully settling in the crib.  EWs are hard to resettle in the first place, because of the stage of sleep LOs are in and because they've had several hours of sleep already.  So, when she settles in your arms, she's going to be much more aware of being put down than in the middle of the night.  Are you reducing the time that you're holding her still?  The last thing is that what you're getting isn't technically an EW.  She's still doing over 10-10.5 hr of night sleep, which is what's usually considered an EW.  You might just have to ride them out a bit until you can push her A time a little more and her teeth are through.

[MommySteezy]

Thanks for the reply, Katie.

Last night was pretty bad with teething (I assume). She would lay in her crib and cry for a while and I tried to just let her resettle bc her eyes were closed and it was almost like a mantra cry, but she just couldn't settle herself. The first time my husband went in and laid her back down and she woke up about 20 mins later with the same thing - mantra for a few minutes and then sat up. I gave her Tylenol when I went in and resettled her and she was back down in her crib asleep after about 10 mins. She slept until 5:49 and it was the same thing as days before. Obviously still sleepy, ridiculously hard to resettle. I tried for about an hour and she would settle a little on and off in my arms but never really reached a deep sleep and popped up every time I tried to lay her down. A few times she just started crying really hard.  I gave up on getting her back to sleep at 7AM. We did another APOP CN this morning in the car for 25 mins and I laid her down for a nap 3 hours later.

As far as the reducing the time I am holding her - yes and no.  With the EW - def not. I guess it depends on how she "feels". I know that sounds kooky but sometimes I can just tell she is not ready to be laid down yet and I know that she will just pop back up. Should I be more strict with the time reduction? I didn't know if I should put that on hold until we were done with the teething.

[/quote]
 The last thing is that what you're getting isn't technically an EW.  She's still doing over 10-10.5 hr of night sleep, which is what's usually considered an EW.  You might just have to ride them out a bit until you can push her A time a little more and her teeth are through.
[/quote]

Sorry for my denseness, but I don't understand what you mean by this. Are you saying it is not an EW bc in total (minus NW) she is still getting about 10 hours in?

My last question is, at what point do you think I should stop trying to get her back down on these "EWs"? I don't want to reinforce her waking up at this time (especially if she hasn't gotten a good night in) but I also don't want to throw things off or make her/me frustrated by pacing her room and trying to get her back down until 7:00.

Thanks! xo

[katie80]

Sorry for my denseness, but I don't understand what you mean by this. Are you saying it is not an EW bc in total (minus NW) she is still getting about 10 hours in?

Oh no, that's my mistake, actually. I misread your post and took 6:35 as the EW, not 5:20ish, which makes no sense as for all the other advice I was using the 5:20 time.  Really bad math from a former math teacher.

My last question is, at what point do you think I should stop trying to get her back down on these "EWs"? I don't want to reinforce her waking up at this time (especially if she hasn't gotten a good night in) but I also don't want to throw things off or make her/me frustrated by pacing her room and trying to get her back down until 7:00.

What if you just laid down on the floor next to her crib? I used to do this with DD a lot while she was teething, when I knew it would be really hard to resettle.  She sometimes fell back to sleep, sometimes not, but at least she wasn't coming out of the room like it was morning and we weren't 'fighting' each other either.

Should I be more strict with the time reduction? I didn't know if I should put that on hold until we were done with the teething.

That's your call, really.  I'm usually a bit softer while they're teething, but you don't want too many 'habits' to carry over.  It will likely be just as difficult to resettle her in the crib at that time, so it's kind of a toss up.  The only thing is sometimes more teeth will come right after the ones currently cutting and then you're still stuck in your AP.  This happened to me about 2 months ago.

[MommySteezy]

Lay on the floor next to her crib with her?

[katie80]

No sorry, she would be in the crib still and you'd be on the floor.  Do you think that would work? She'd likely protest the first few mornings, but if you just repeat your sleepy phrase to her nice and calmly, she should get the hint that it's not time to wake up yet.

[MommySteezy]

ehhh....probably not but I could give it a shot. I usually don't even leave the room until I see she is settled and asleep in her crib so my bet is that laying down next to the crib would just confuse her.

[MommySteezy]

Last night I tried putting C down a little before 8 (5 hours after her nap) and she fought me for a while. but I got her in bed asleep by 8:34. THEN....she slept for 9 hours and 17 mins! That is the longest stretch we have had in months! 

She woke up at 5:51 and I took her to the glider immediately and rocked with her for about 15 minutes and then laid her down and she stayed in her crib without popping up  and slept for almost 20 minutes. She might have stayed a little longer if the dogs weren't so noisy. I know I am trying to get her to resettle on her own, but my thought was that if I could just show her (without fighting with her) that it was still time to relax she might resettle and go back to sleep. I still definitely think she is tired when she wakes up that early but just having a hard time since it is technically day time. Does that make sense at all?

On the SA front....I am leaving her with her grandma today while I tutor. I am extremely anxious about it. I am fully aware that she will cry, maybe even the whole time I am gone. I am MORE worried that the SA will make her so upset that it will make it harder for her to fall asleep on her own, or that she will have night terrors bc of it. I know [hope] I am probably getting ahead of myself but it is making me so nervous. Any advice?

[katie80]

Yay for the great night stretch!

As for the SA, I'm sure it's too late, but the best thing to do is to try to relax about it yourself. Help her see that it's fun to be with grandma. Say goodbye cheerfully and tell her you'll be back to get her. And remind yourself that the absolute worst that can happen would be that she'd cry the whole time and it would interrupt sleep. But, you've dealt with that in all the right ways, so you can do it again if you have to. My guess is she won't cry the whole time though. (((Hugs)))

[MommySteezy]

Weird - I thought I posted a reply last night but it never showed up. Anyways....

More GOOD news (this time on the SA front)! C did great when I left her with grandma yesterday!  . I was super anxious and just knew she would cry the whole time, but I tried to not show her any of that messy energy. I made sure to hang out there for a little bit while she had some snack. I was so tempted to make a run for it while she was distracted but I followed your advice and when I left I smiled and gave her lots of kisses and walked out the door. When I got back to pick her up, I didn't hear her crying, which was a relief! I went upstairs and she was playing happily. I thought as soon as she noticed me she would remember that she had been left and melt down but she just smiled, and showed me what she was playing with. They said she cried for a little bit after snack but they took her up to the play room and distracted her and she was happy and playful the rest of the time. Words can not even begin to express how proud/happy/relieved I was!  BIG step for both of us!

For some not-so-good news....She fought going down again last night. It took me about an hour to get her down from start to finish. Do you think that she needed more A time? Was she OS from the babysitting experience? What gives? I am super nervous that we are going to start sliding backwards because that seems to be our pattern with sleeping. Things will start to get better, and it will feel like we are very close and then everything starts to fall to pieces. We have made so much progress, I really don't want for everything to derail. Please let me know what you guys think!

[katie80]

Cool, glad she did so well!

As for BT, I think it could've been a combination of things... a different day, spent with grandma, maybe a little OS, maybe teeth bugging her, maybe more/less A time. It's really hard to know, because babies aren't always the same day to day.  Did she nap with grandma or at home with you?  I know that until DS, my mom didn't always give me exact times of things.  It's just not as important to them as it is to us.  So, I'd ask when DD slept and she'd say, 'Oh, around 1.'  Like, she fell asleep at one or went in the crib at one and for how long? Now, I tell her before I go to look at the clock and just give me the times.

[becj86]

Awesome for her to be so happy with grandma

Agree with Katie - BT could have been many different things but I'd put my money on OS. Just changing things up can really mess with LO's but it does get better.

[MommySteezy]

We had another really bad night last night. She went down without a fight but woke up about 3.5 hours later crying really hard. I was downstairs baking for a client (I own a cake pop business) so my husband went in to get her soothed and settled. He spent about 10 minutes with her and got her back down but then she woke up 10 minutes later again. He went in again and she just would not stop crying. She was almost inconsolable. He would settle her a little bit and then she would just start crying really hard again. I eventually finished up and came up to help and she settled when I held her for a little bit, but would still cry off and on and would not go back to her bed. We assumed it was teething, because it just seemed more than "I don't want to cooperate" kind of things. Is that what it sounds like to you?

Is there anything I can do at this point? I am so worried because we just started making such good progress and it feels like things are starting to fall apart again. It seems like this is what happens every time! 

Also - I have been doing the CN in the morning when she wakes up before 7 (which has been the case for the past couple of days). Do you think this has anything to do with it?

[katie80]

Yes, it does sound like pain/discomfort.  Are you medicating for the teeth at all?

Also - I have been doing the CN in the morning when she wakes up before 7 (which has been the case for the past couple of days). Do you think this has anything to do with it?

It could.  Can you post a couple days of what it looks like when you do the CN?  She might be getting a bit OT if the day ends up too long, or of course she could just need the push to one nap.