Regression - easy is not that easy??? 16 wo baby

[orit78]

OK. So I'm back again. I'm so confused and tired. This night I thought I would kick someone (thank god to DH that was calm enough).
My LO is 16 wo (yesterday). He's my 3rd child (have two daughters at home). We are on EASY from day 1. I'm familiar with EASY from my daughters and I know it works (DD1 was an angel baby so that was really easy, DD2 was sesitive baby - took us some time, but she's become adorable). This LO seems as a text book baby - except of his eating and night sleeping.
He's very tiny (weights only 4.5 kg now). BF only. I've struggled with his day naps making sure he extends them to more than 45 min. It's still no smooth (like this morning ) but seems better (as I believe his gas and tummy aces are better). So we are on EASY of 3-3.5 hours.
But at night I still can't find the magic. DH gives him the DF at about 23:00-23:30. In the last few days that worked well - he got pumped milk and ate at least 100 ml. We had good night when he woke at about 4:30-5:00 am and I BF. He got back to sleep and woke up again to start his day at 8:30. Sometimes he wakes and I give him the paci.
But last night - this LO woke up at 3:30 after 4 hours from last meal. He ate 90ml in this meal. I gave the paci but he wasn't calm. Then at 4:00 I thought that maybe he is thirsty 'cause it was a bit hot. I BF - he didn't eat much. I got him back to his crib but he didn't sleep. It took us an hour to get him back to sleep! He was all awake!!! Eventually I holded him in my arms trying to settle him. But this LO knows to fall asleep only when he lies on his tummy with his paci in his mouth so it didn't really help. Then he started crying a bit and eventually he fartted twice. Then I put him back in his crib and finally he got back to sleep.
I just don't know what to do - feed him? give him his paci? Insist on getting him back to sleep? Yesterday he didn't sleep his morning nap well. So maybe that what caused to the nw? He's almost 4 mo and he's never slept more than 6 hours at night. I know he's little so he needs the feeding, but 4 hours?? when he was 1 mo we slept better.
I'm frustrated and tired... Even DD2 who was terrible during the day slept much more at night. I just feel nervous after a night like that.
Please advice!

[becj86]

There's a giant growth spurt around 4 months - could be that. That NW at which he eventually farted - that was gas being painful in all likelihood. Are you burping him after NF's? Are they feeds from the breast? Are you engorged before the NF's - you may need to lie back a bit or express a bit off so he's not getting such a large amount of milk flowing at him and causing him to take in air as he gulps down the milk.

Will think on it overnight and comes back with more. xx

[orit78]

I hate to think that every regression is a growth spurt I guess the farting means that he suffered from gas (when will it over for god sake??)
I'm don't feel I'm engorged though I feel my breast is quite full.  In the NF I keep making sure he burps. He is BF except this DF which DH gives in a bottle.
He's so tiny (way under the growth curves) so that's why I give him the bottle. I also think of giving him in this meal formula (tried it 3 nights last week and had terrible gas during the day) - he must gain more weight.

[katie80]

I hate to think that every regression is a growth spurt

No, I don't think every regression will be a growth spurt, but there really is a big one at 4 mo. 

How is he at taking the bottle?  It could be some extra gas from bottle feeding (more air to suck in and formula is a bit harder to digest) that caused that NW with the fart.  Have you tracked what you eat and how his gas/tummy seems a few to several hours later?  If you really think he is suffering, that might point something out to you.

he must gain more weight.

(((Hugs))), what is his doctor saying about this?  If it were me, I'd be inclined to feed him on demand for a few days to a week and just kind of work in naps where appropriate.  If he needs to gain more and he's going through a growth spurt, he's going to need the extra calories, even in the middle of the night, I'm afraid.  His NWs really aren't uncommon for a 4 mo, BFd baby.

[orit78]

Hey,
Thanks for the reply. I just thought the growth spurt are at ages 3 months and 6 months. I must admit that I haven't really witnessed any real growth sprut with this LO. He's a bad eater. If I feed him by demand it means he'll hardly eat - except for the night of course.... I haven't witnessed and demand for feeding during the day...
The bottle feeding was a pumped milk - but not fresh. Something I've taken from the freezer. We had 2-3 good nights with the bottle (again, not fresh). I wanted to wait a bit more before we start the formula. Though I must say - I'm starting to give up. He hardly gains weight, he hardly eats and I don't enjoy the feedings
The doctor and nurses think my milk is not fat enough (which I don't think so since when I used to pump in the beginning and give him 3 bottles a day he gained something like 170 gr a week and when I pump I get a nice amount of milk - at least 100ml). I just know that it's something in the genes - none of my kids is a great eater and I must say - neither do I.
When I try to offer him BF in the afternoon (when he sleeps only 30-45 min) and try a cluster feeding he hardly eats.
I do have a guess that might explain the nights - I feel that we don't have a good routine for the afternoon evening since he sleeps only 30-45 min. I suspect he's a bit OT. Another hint for that is that in the evening when he goes to sleep (after a bath and a story) it takes time till he actually fell asleep, which doesn't happen during his days nap. During the day I hardly need to assist him to fell asleep. I just don't know what to do with his catnap in the afternoon. He wakes at about 17:30 and he's not hungry. I feed him but he hardly eats. Then we try to "steal" some time till 19:00 when I feed him again and then he takes his bath. So he gets to bed at about 19:45-20:00.
WDYT?

[katie80]

Though I must say - I'm starting to give up. He hardly gains weight, he hardly eats and I don't enjoy the feedings

(((Hugs))), it's really a hard place to be in when you don't enjoy the feedings.  What are your feelings about continuing to BF or switch to FF?  If you want to continue, there is a lot of support you can get right here, other places online, and I'm sure in your community too.

I do find it somewhat concerning that you have never really witnessed a demand to feed and he never seems all that interested.  I can't remember from your other thread, have you talked with your doctor about reflux/intolerances at all? Often babes with those don't care to eat too much (except maybe at night if they are self soothing), and struggle to gain weight.

I do think you are right about the OT in the early evening playing a part in all of this.  OT/OS babies sometimes struggle to feed well also. I would offer the cluster feed and again at bedtime, you don't have to wait a specified amount of time in between, and just try to get him to bed earlier at that point.  You may find he does better with less of a feed and an EBT, and then will take more at the DF, when he's relaxed and likely more hungry.

Finally, I didn't realize you were doing EBM in a bottle.  There's nothing wrong with it not being fresh as long as it hasn't been in a regular freezer for over 3 mo (at least that's the guideline in the US, it could be different other places).

[becj86]

My DS struggled to put on weight for a while there too as he was getting mostly foremilk - I think your supply sounds fine in terms of volume. You could try adding some more fats to your diet - like avocados, nuts, etc. Are you feeding from one breast or two at each feed? When do you swap?

Katie raises a good point about intolerances/reflux too, here is some information: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=13.0

[orit78]

Hey,
I swap sides when DS just don't want any more from the original side. He really refuses sometimes to keep sucking eventhough I know there is still milk there. And it's not that he tries, see that it's more difficult to suck and then get upset. He just don't want to continue aftere few min and then I just try to swap. There isn't a side that he prefers - it's almost every feed. That's why I don't like the feeding. I tried compression but it didn't help - the LO just doesn't want to...
Thing is that he also doesen't eeat well from the bottle. We had some good night when he ate at least 100ml, but the elast two nights he hardly ate 80 and this morning I had to go with DS2 and DH gave him pumped milk and he took him more than half an hour to eat 70-80.
I'll look at the reflux thing thogh I doubt - the doctor didn't suggest anything like that (they just blame my milk ). He doesn't cry or seem not clam during the day. Sometimes it looks like the gas inteferes his nap and he wakes up after 45 min. I'm just so tired of dealing with his naps, weight, night sleep and two other girls at home. He's 4 months old next week and I didn't think we'll be at this stage at this point. I really thoguht things will be better but it looks like things are getting worse with this LO. I feel this is a full time job and I just want to take vacation

[becj86]

Would you be prepared to express and bottle feed the EBM for all feeds for a few days? That way you know what he's getting and he is getting the most balanced milk possible from the beginning of each feed. It helped a lot with DS when he was screaming with gas pain (which came after the being happy all day and just not napping well) but it was hard work for me with one baby and DH away - it'd be harder for you with two girls to look after too.

[my3girlsjde]

Hugs hun.

My youngest was a failure to thrive breastfed baby whither reflux and food intolerances. What you're describing sounds pretty familiar. I would take a peek at the reflux link and see if any of it fits. Like you, I had a lot of milk and even when we sorted out my overactive letdown and making too much milk issue, she still had a rout go of it.

My gut here says discomfort. Is he better or worse with certain foods?

[orit78]

Would you be prepared to express and bottle feed the EBM for all feeds for a few days?

Well, I don't think I'm able for doing that - I've done it in the beginning (not all the feeds but 3-4 feeds a day) - and since he was tiny and slept quite good I was able of doing that. Can't imagine I do it now when I still struggle with his day naps and have two girls around in the afternoon

My youngest was a failure to thrive breastfed baby whither reflux and food intolerances

How did you know this is reflux or food intolerances? I just think it's part of the genes - both me and DH are not that "big". We didn't eat well when we were babies... My DH was also quite tiny as a child. DD1 wasn't that good eater either, but I combined her feeds with formula. And she was an angel baby - slept so good... God, I missed those days..

Is he better or worse with certain foods?

I didn't pay attnetion to any change regarding my food. But - it's hard to say. I haven't eliminated anything... I just know that he's 4 months old next week, and I thought that things will get better. Especially at night

[becj86]

What's his EASY? What are his day naps like?

Not eating well from breast or bottle may indicate that he's associating feeding with pain. That's why we're suggesting the possibility of reflux/intolerance.

[my3girlsjde]

How did you know this is reflux or food intolerances?

We had a lot of symptoms that suggested the intolerances and my lactation consultant figured it out. Blowout mucousy poops, constant eczema, failure to thrive (87th centile down to the 8th) and she would feed some and then come off and squirm. She wasn't a screamer at all but once in a while she would cry and then we clued in to the discomfort of it. She was sttn for 5 hr stretches at just a couple of days old and then started feeding multiple times throughout the night which babies in discomfort often start doing to comfort themselves.

Have a peek here to see if any of this fits http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0

Hugs hun

[orit78]

What's his EASY? What are his day naps like?

We are on 3.5 hour easy. Sometimes it's less then 3.5 hours sometimes it's a bit more. Even when it's more than 4 hours of gap between the meals he doesn't eat so well. Like he's not that hungry. At night - when he wakes up after 5 hours he does eat well. During the day I try to make sure that is nap will alst at least 1.5 hour. Sometimes I need to help him to extend them (by using the paci of pat/shh). Yesterday he slept 2 naps of 2 hours - this was really good for him but it rarely happens. In the evening/afternoon he sleeps 30-45 min (and actually I hate this cat nap sinceI just feel he needs more than just 30 min but I can't extend it).

Have a peek here to see if any of this fits http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0

I've looked at the link - I can't really say that it's reflux. Most of the symptomps don't suit us. But - I've noticed you wrote about eczema. He also has this...I have an appointment today to the doctor so I'll ask her about it, though I think doctors are not in an hurry to say the baby suffers from reflux if he doesn't vommit or spit up.

[becj86]

though I think doctors are not in an hurry to say the baby suffers from reflux if he doesn't vommit or spit up.

Keep in mind that it could be silent reflux. Not pushing to say he's got reflux, just that its possible to have reflux without the spitting up.