At a loss - 11mo not napping

[kellyincali]

I've been trying to nail down DS2's naps since he was 8 months old and we did PU/PD so he would sleep in his crib for naps. Since then, his EASY has been ridiculously erratic, filled with 30 minute or 45 minute naps and the occasional (very, very occasional) 1 hour nap.

After 3 months of trying to get him to take naps, I'm ready to just give up. He can fall asleep independently, but only if I catch him at the right moment - literally. If it's a moment before or moment after, forget it. No nap. I have to take him out of the room and start over later. If I don't take him out, and attempt PU/PD (which worked before), he will stand up and then fling himself backward so his head hits the opposite side of the crib. I'm afraid he's going to give himself brain damage because he will do it over and over.

I can't even APOP him into taking a decent nap. Well, that's not true. He will fall asleep and stay asleep for 45 minutes if I nurse him and let him stay latched the entire time.

I know he's OT, but I can't seem to break the cycle. An EBT just leads to an even earlier WU. At the moment, he wakes exactly 9 hours after I put him down and will scream and cry for two hours before I get him up.

W2S for naps and EW has ALWAYS backfired and lead to him waking up right then and there; I know I'm doing it right because it worked before with some of his programmed NWs.

So what do I do? Any ideas?

[Papaya]

Huge hugs Hun.
Can you give me an idea of your EASY, or attempted EASY, over the past few days? What A times are you aiming for? Do you know your Lo's temperament? Any issues with reflux etc?
Sorry for all the questions, this must be so frustrating for you and I hope we can help to get it sorted soon so you and LO both get some good rest. No doubt your LO is in an OT loop with those short nights and naps so I really would AP as much sleep as possible in the meantime. How
do you try to resettle at the EWs - can you feed him back to sleep then?

xx

[kellyincali]

Thanks Papaya, for your reply.

Okay, Here's how the days typically go:
BT: 6:30pm (night before)
NW: 4am sleep off and on either in the crib or APOPed
WU: 5am
E (bf): 5am
E (solids): 6:30am
S: 8:30am (following cues) - 9am
E (bf): 9am
E (snack): 10:30am
E: (lunch): 12pm
S: 1:30 or 2pm (depends on cues) - 2:15 or 2:45 (usually 45 min exactly)
E (bf): 2:45pm
E (snack): 4:00pm
E (dinner): 5:30pm
BT: 6:30pm (sometimes falls asleep while nursing if he takes an early pm nap and is exhausted, but I try not to let that happen)

Yesterday actually went perfectly, in my opinion  (I'll exclude the solid meals this time for brevity):
WU: 5am (probably needed more, but I'll take it)
E: 5am
S: 9:30 - 10:30am (1 hour!)
E: 10:30am
S: 2:30pm - 3:30pm (another 1 hour nap! Unheard of!)
E: 3:30pm
BT: 7pm (we tried for 6:30, but he didn't settle until close to 7)
WU: 4:55am, fed him and he fell asleep until 6am

Now for the rest of the questions:
-I'm not even sure what A times I've been shooting for. I know he should be in the 3 - 4 hour range and he's always been Textbook/Angel, so I was going for 3.5 in the am, 3.75 in the middle and then 3.5 - 3.75 in the evening for awhile, but lately I've just been trying to put him down when he seems tired, even if that's at 2.5 hours because I know more sleep is better than less at this point.
-Never any issues with reflux. He was right on with his EASY until ST in March.
-For the EWs, I do try to resettle him in any way possible. Sometimes he'll fall back asleep (like this morning), sometimes not. The only thing that is consistent is he is really restless after that EW. Like he's tired, but not tired enough to fall back asleep. I've watched him fall asleep on his own, sleep for 10 seconds and then pop his head off the mattress and start crying again and then do it over and over and over. Even if I'm rocking/nursing/bouncing/singing to him, the same thing tends to happen. The poor little guy is obviously frustrated.

What do you think?

[Papaya]

Ah, the horrid EW loop. I think they're probably largely OT - sleep hormones are at their lowest after 4am, and when LOs are OT they find it hard to transition when they come into light sleep after this time. BUT, I also think giving the first nap too early will just perpetuate them (Been there, done that )

Yesterday does sound like it went much better, and what you did then is actually pretty much what I was thinking when I read the first EASY you posted I would push that morning nap later no matter what the WU, so it's no earlier than 9.30 (as you did yesterday - yay for a longer nap!). He might get more OT in the short term, but as he's textbook/angel, he should be able to cope with this. Pushing the am nap later really made a difference to EWs here.

By 11 months many LOs are doing 3.5-4.5hr A times, so I wouldn't be afraid to push the A times a bit to try to get longer naps. He seemed to do fine with a 4 hour A yesterday after a 1hr nap. So perhaps you could try sticking with that A time for a few days (providing you get a decent morning nap - otherwise I'd reduce the second A). It may be that he needs even more but I'd take it slowly and see how he goes. Yk, I actually suspect that if you can nail these A times, you'll be in the region of nap capping

What do you think?

[kellyincali]

Okay, set that first nap no earlier than 9:30. Got it. Sounds like something I can handle.

Questions:
- What should I do if he wakes later? This morning, WU was at 5:30am (we had a looooooong NW around 1am), so should I still keep it at 9:30 since he was awake in the middle of the night? Or should I focus on A time?
- Then what do I do when he does wake early? I've been APOPing when I can to get him to sleep longer, but I'm not sure I should continue this if I'm going to set his nap later in the hopes his WU will become later. Should I just get him up for the day?
- Also, since he will be OT, do I attempt to lengthen his naps or should I just get him up when he wakes like I have been doing?
-Lastly, if I have to shorten the second A to compensate for a short am nap, but the pm nap ends up being just as short, should I toss in a CN if I can? For instance, if he wakes from his pm nap at 1:30 after a 30 min nap, should I keep him up until BT at 6:30? It seems like a long time, but I'm afraid the CN will just ruin BT. I don't know. I guess I could just play around with it, but I thought I'd get some guidance from you.

Thank you so much for your advice! I'm ready to get started and see if we can't lengthen his night sleep a little.

[Papaya]

I think I would do first nap after 4 hrs A, or at 9.30, whichever is later. So 5.30 WU, still 9.30 nap Maybe choose a WU that is acceptable for now (5.30?) and if he wakes before that, try to AP back down, otherwise get him up.

since he will be OT, do I attempt to lengthen his naps

Yup, I would try to extend if you think it's an OT waking (grumpy, clearly still tired) - but I personally wouldn't spend more than about 10 mins doing so. I usually knew by then if I had a chance of getting my LO back down or not.

If you really can't extend and get two 30 min naps, you could try for a really short cn, maybe 15-20 mins in the car or stroller. Or my preferred option would actually be to go for EBT. Have you ever tried putting him down super early, like 5.45? I don't think you'd have a lot to lose because he might actually sleep something close to 12 hours, in which case you'd have a similar WU to what you're getting anyway but a more rested baby; and if not you have a much better chance of convincing him it's still night time if he wakes at 3am and he should go back to sleep easier   I was so so scared the first time I did this with my LO but she did actually tack on. It only really worked for us with a 6pm or earlier BT.