Author Topic: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t  (Read 9006 times)

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Offline my3girlsjde

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Re: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2012, 21:55:19 pm »
Very unlikely that it is lactose hun... so few kids have a lactose intolerance...  I would be more inclined to thing milk allergy (MPI) versus lactose.  If she is constipated, that would almost discount that lactose idea - it causes horrid diarrhea.

so many questions it so hard to decide on this little sleep.  i'm afraid of doing anything incase i make it worse.

With her clearly not well, I would abandon calculations like A times etc... follow her lead for now.

This. She does sound in some sort of discomfort. Dr's don't always pick up on this as my twins went 14 months without being diagnosed and once we trialled proper reflux meds (usually ranitidine/zantac first) we saw a world of difference in them. They were the ones that refused to sleep in the car. E on the other hand was our car sleeper. Their little bodies deal with it so differently.

A lot of Dr's are of the mind that if the baby is growing then all is well. This can be particularly challenging to deal with because its certainly not the case all the time. They often hear about lack of sleep,crying and unsettledness. I always found it more effective to talk about behaviours over sleep if that makes any sense. Describing what's going on during the crying. Is she arching her back? Squirming? Writhing? Etc. Those behaviours would indicate pain as well as an APOP proof baby. Most babies should be able to be APOP'd to the point of catching up and getting out of an OT loop.

My big girls projectile vomited the majority of formulas out there. E is far more sensitive and hardly ever spit up. I can remember only two spit ups with her in her entire life. Her reflux is what they call "silent reflux". It is often as a result of a food intolerance and milk is usually the most common one.

I think.k at this point it would be well worth a trial of reflux meds to see of they can help. They won't hurt if unnecessary, and it's an easy way to see if t that's what's going on.

Many hugs to you hun. You sound exhausted and I know it well. You've had some great advice here, but the simple and sad truth of it is that if your lo is in any kind of discomfort than sleep training is very hard of not impossible to do.

I would go back to the Dr. Don't worry about being a pain. That's what they're there for.

And also wanted to add that our reflux "witching hours" were supper time, midnight and 4am. Constant little night feeds can soothe the throat from the burning reflux.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 22:06:45 pm by my3girlsjde »
Vicki - nursing student and proud mother to three refluxers in two years





Remembering my sleeping angels: 17 Jan 06, 30 Jul 09

Offline caoimhe mum

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Re: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2012, 05:45:43 am »
well i know i said i stoppped the gaviscon but i went back and said i have to give it a fair chance and that i'll work on the constipation after.  so ladies wait for it we had a break through yesterday she slept in pram when we went on our walk. i was afraid to stop walking in case she would wake but i was so tired so just as i walked in home she woke.  about 40 mins sleep this allowed her to have a later bed time. 

so then last night she woke at 11 but i could get her back to sleep by rubbing her belly and she woke again at 1.15am this took alot longer to get her back and she was back to the usual of on of wake sleep but only for an hour and ten mins.  then she slept till 5am.  she talked in the cot, i tried to get her back to sleep but she was having none of it.  so she got about 8hrs sleep as she went to bed at 8pm. i know thats not great but it something, i hate saying it outloud these improvements as before i would say it and then the next day we would be straight back to square one.   

i'm sooo hopefull that maybe we have break through.  i'll go back and ask the doc about some other form of meds.  yeah i'm so happy what a relief that its not in my head and she had to be crying for some reason.   

Offline caoimhe mum

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Re: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2012, 05:48:48 am »
i'm in debt to all ye wonderful women again for all the great advice and support, ye are amazing truly amazing.

Offline becj86

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Re: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2012, 07:04:52 am »
yeah i'm so happy what a relief that its not in my head and she had to be crying for some reason.
Nice to have the validation of your mummy-instincts!

Hope the doctor gives you some more appropriate meds for her and she (and you!) can get some relief and some sleep.

Offline *Kara*

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Re: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2012, 03:53:30 am »
Great news!



Offline my3girlsjde

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Re: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2012, 04:22:51 am »
Just as a thought, you could always incorporate prunes as a daily regimen to offset the gaviscon's constipation effects.
Vicki - nursing student and proud mother to three refluxers in two years





Remembering my sleeping angels: 17 Jan 06, 30 Jul 09

Offline caoimhe mum

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Re: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t
« Reply #36 on: June 18, 2012, 05:22:24 am »
thanks ladies we are doing prunes daily, stomach massage, prune juice.  i'm really embarassed but the night wakenings haven't gone and don't seem to be going any where. 

so we had the one good day of naps but now we are back again to the same but she is tired.  but i can apop a bit more out of her like 10 mins. 

the night wakenings are early on the night 8/9/ish 10/11ish ye is generally easy enough to get back to sleep on these wakening which makes me think its o/t but then at around 12.30 she will wake and move around the cot happy enough let out the odd cry i will go to her and tell her its night night time and tuck her in she tends to try to play with my hand and is happy when she sees me.  this goes on for an hour and then she starts to get upset i try to get her back to sleep but she won't so the last two nights i gave her a bottle she takes 2/4ounze and then when i put her back she goes back to sleep it takes a few mins but she goes back. is this an u/t wakening and habitual???

  then throughout the rest of the night she lets out the odd cry but its in her sleep as i have checked her and she is asleep.  then she can wake anywhere from 4am onwards.  i know you say that probably isn't bad considering she went to bed at 6pm.  but if you consider the long night wakening she getting about 8hrs sleep.  i have tried to get her back but she just wants to play and get up. 

then we get up and she is yawing but happy playing.  she is wrecked from her A times i try to keep her up to 3hrs /3hrs 15 mins.  she will sleep for 1hr 30mins. 

any insight

Offline caoimhe mum

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Re: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t
« Reply #37 on: June 18, 2012, 07:20:06 am »
just one more thing i didn't ask why doesn't she sleep past the 1hr 30 in the morning she is clearly still tired.  other post say they tack onto the first nap if they haven't slept enough is she that o/t that she can't stay asleep.  oh this is all heart destroying.  i read as many post as i can to gain more info, i see them all come and go and yet i'm still pestering ye going from one board to the next. i'm so frustrated, exhausted and emotional.  i am now going to bed as close to her bedtime as possible in order to get a few hours.  i feel like i'm in prision i can't go out because i'm trying to get her to nap.  and we have half our day done when the rest of the place is only getting up.  i can't leave her with anyone as i don't have family that can help here and its not fair to put her on anyone else.  especially at all my requests and uncertainties of when to feed her or put her down for a nap. 

sorry for ranting i would just love a break where i don't have to be trying to get her to sleep and where i could just sleep   

Offline becj86

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Re: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t
« Reply #38 on: June 18, 2012, 08:06:31 am »
this goes on for an hour and then she starts to get upset i try to get her back to sleep but she won't so the last two nights i gave her a bottle she takes 2/4ounze and then when i put her back she goes back to sleep it takes a few mins but she goes back. is this an u/t wakening and habitual???
This sounds like OT still - they get full of adrenalin when really OT and just can't sleep :(

why doesn't she sleep past the 1hr 30 in the morning she is clearly still tired
This is 2 sleep cycles - she may be still tired but not tired enough to transition through to another sleep cycle... it may be the chronic OT.

i feel like i'm in prision i can't go out because i'm trying to get her to nap.
Go out and live a bit - DS napped so much better when I started going out each morning, just for a walk in the park or at the local mall. I was more relaxed for being able to get out and he seemed to pick up on that.

Do you think the reflux is under control yet? If so, then we just need to work on the OT which we can do  :-*

Hugs xx

Offline caoimhe mum

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Re: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t
« Reply #39 on: June 18, 2012, 10:30:27 am »
heres what happened for her nap.   i read a post after putting her to bed and it sparked my 45min naps about getting them through the transition. so i went into the room and stayed there. she woke at her usual 1hr 30 with a piercing cry out.  so i went to her left my hand on her and said shush.  she went back to sleep but was crying out in it and very fitful.  she selpt for another 1hr.  so i know she is tired is this another transition they have to learn to get through.  this is the same kinda thing that happens at night except she can't go back to sleep.  just thought maybe this might click something in someone as to whats up with her. 

to tell you the truth about the reflux i don't know if its sorted.  i'm still giving her the meds, she will go on her tummy now.  thats all i know because she is still waking.   

Offline becj86

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Re: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2012, 00:26:03 am »
she woke at her usual 1hr 30 with a piercing cry out.  so i went to her left my hand on her and said shush.  she went back to sleep but was crying out in it and very fitful.  she selpt for another 1hr.  so i know she is tired is this another transition they have to learn to get through.  this is the same kinda thing that happens at night except she can't go back to sleep.
This does sound like chronic OT (possibly still discomfort too, but not having seen a refluxer sleeping, I can't comment there) - the fitfulness and the difficulty getting back to sleep even though still very tired. To help with that, it can take some time, but basically you just get the sleep into her however you can. Early nights, longer naps with assistance where necessary and she should come good after a few days with her sleep becoming less fitful and her being more able to get through the transitions on her own - you may find she then starts waking early from naps and/or from her night sleep which means its time to look at what her routine should be.

Offline caoimhe mum

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Re: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2012, 08:47:30 am »
thanks becj86

so yesterday she faught going down for her 2nd nap but she did only to wake 40 mins later which would indicate u/t but i apoped her to get some more sleep about 15mins i'd say the only reason she woke was because my arm was dead and i tried to move her.  why does she fight the 2nd nap when she is cronically over tired and then wake 40mins later even though she is still tired.  how am i meant to figure out if it u/t ot o/t she is wakening from.

then i put her down to bed 2hrs 45min later and she woke 40mins later and then after an 1hr and 30mins.  same again she woke at 2am and rolled around in the cot,chatted and cried out.  the same as the other nights when i would go to her.  turn her head as if try to go to sleep and then can't so she tries to play with my hand.  so at 3am i feed her and she went back to sleep only to wake again at 4.30am.  at this satge i said no ways i'm not getting up for the day here.  so i tried to put her back to sleep she wasn't having it at first but then i left her chatting and fell back asleep until 6.15am. 

you may find she then starts waking early from naps and/or from her night sleep which means its time to look at what her routine should be.
how will i know this is happening??  is there sign i shoukld look out for. 

Offline becj86

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Re: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t
« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2012, 09:04:30 am »
o yesterday she faught going down for her 2nd nap but she did only to wake 40 mins later which would indicate u/t
This is where finding the right balance is so hard. She's chronically OT which runs as an undercurrent to her days at the moment, but it is possible to be short-term UT at the same time - she needs to be short-term tired or slightly OT (not UT) to APOP the sleep into her, you see.

Quote from: becj86 on Today at 01:26:03 AM
you may find she then starts waking early from naps and/or from her night sleep which means its time to look at what her routine should be.
how will i know this is happening??  is there sign i shoukld look out for.
You'l go through a day or two that will be pretty good - long independent naps, nice long nights and fairly suddenly, things will turn bad again with early wakings and shorter naps and you'll wonder what's gone on.

how am i meant to figure out if it u/t ot o/t she is wakening from.
Is she still acting tired? If so, put her down, if not, get her up and shorten the next A time. There's no real way to know at this point that I know of, you just have to go with your gut and cross your fingers.

Offline caoimhe mum

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Re: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2012, 17:49:57 pm »
ok well today was the same was showing really tired sign after 2hrs 30 A time so i put her to bed after 2hr 45 A time because i didn't want u/t but we had the same 40 min nap so i got another 30mins out of her by apoping.  the she was showing tired signs again after 2hrs 30 A time just before bed so i gave her, her bath quickly and tried to get her to bed a quickly as possible.  so she needed help going to sleep because she was o/t i would say. 

trial and error but its more error.

Offline becj86

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Re: desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2012, 21:35:39 pm »
The other thing that could be causing the 40min naps is they can get so tired they can't get through a transition, even though previously they could. Its hard to know once they're OT like this - been there, done that but I just muddled through like you are, never came up with a silver bullet...