desperate mum in need of sleep with 7 month old who is o/t

[caoimhe mum]

so my lo is has been a diasterous sleeper since dot.  i'm not sure if i clutching at straws or looking for a mirical to happen. she has never slept the night and i'm hitting last resort of going home to where they want to help but by help they mean me to go away and they will let her cio.  i keep refusing this help but yet i keep ringing so upset because i'm soooo tired and i can't see any light.  i have a post on easy but i think if i consantrate on the night wakings then maybe i will be able to get through the day.  i thought that maybe if i got the days sorted the nights might sort themselves but i can't seem to get them sorted so i'm hoping some new eyes will get me through this. 

so a bit of history we struggled with the 40 min nap monster forever, when we eventually got about two weeks of 2 decent nap and a catnap.  but that was short lived as she started fighting the catnap like crazy.  so advice was to get her onto 2 naps.  now that we wnet to 2 naps she is short napping the 2nd nap.  so we have night wakings all night.  from the moment she goes down to the nice early wakins that are killing me.  i've done the early to bed so much thats it nearly her set bed time.   

i post my easy for the past three days

A 5.20
E6.20 bt 5oz 7.20 solid
S 8.35 asleep staright away

A 10.08
E 11.08 bt 7oz 12.15 solids
gave meds for teeth
S 1.22   asleep by 1.24

A 3.16
E 345 7oz bt
6pm bath
E 620 8oz bt
Bed 6.35

wake at 8.30pm resettle, 11 give meds, 1am eat, 3am give tething gel no joy, let her lay on top of me cried her self to self by 4.30am. 5.30am wake i think to hot for her took of some clothes back to sleep till 6.08

A 6.08
E 7.10 5oz bt 8.10 solids
S9.25 asleep in 2 mins

A10.55
E 11.30 6oz bt 1pm solids
S 2.10

A2.44 tried to resettle but couldn't she may have dozed a bit
E 4.50 6oz bt
tried to apop a cat nap but no joy
E 5.50 6oz bt just said i would try to feed her seem she ate so little during the day and she drank it
S 6.06

night wakins at 7.30,9.30,10.30 i resettled each time.  1am eat, 3.30am gave meds, 6.00 awake

A6.00
E7am 4oz bt, 8.10 solids
S9.20 asleep by 9.22

A 11.04
E12 6oz bt, 1.10 solids
gave meds
S 2pm asleep by 2.04

A 3.13
E 4pm
E 6.20
S 6.30 cried so i went to settle her and asleep by 6.44

night wakening 9.30, 11 but i resettled, 1.40 eat, 4am gave meds.  5.26 up the day

so today
A 5.26
E 6.40 6oz bt, 7.30 solids
S 8.54

i know my A times are a little hay wire but i thou as i was doing 3hr A times and her 1st nap was getting shorter i extended it to 3hrs 15 and i was still getting weird naps and her 2nd nap all over the place except on the days where i have given her some meds.  i can't see any teeth but she was cranky as hell a few days ago so i thought maybe its teeth so i gave her meds and it helped her sleep.  she hasn't really been as cranky the last few days but  i gave her meds to see if it helped and stopped on one day to see what happened.  i feel really guilty giving her meds.  but the two nights prior to giving her meds she was awake from midnight till 5.20 only sleeping 5/10 min intervals and then crying and its was the same the next night from 3am onwards.   i thought then maybe its SA but she has been fine in the days the last 2 days.   

sorry its soooo long winded but i'm sooo stressed and exhausted i really need some help i don't want to do cio 

[becj86]

Please, please don't leave her with someone else to CIO. We will help you get this sorted.
I will just post a few links to have a read of re: CIO.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=211289.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=77626.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63839.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=222275.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163042.0

Ok, now to the helping bit:
Are those small bottles for her? Is she off her food a bit at the moment?

Have you thought about reflux or any other thing that may be giving her pain? I just wonder since you say her sleep has been bad since the very beginning. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=107244.0

i feel really guilty giving her meds.

I did too until someone said to me - have you ever had a toothache? Its like that... you wouldn't just suffer through would you? So why not give LO some meds to help with the pain? I'm not saying to give it all the time, but while she's in pain and it is helping, I'd be giving her the meds. It must be awful to be in pain all the time and to be so tired and not be able to sleep because of the pain.

Hugs xx

[caoimhe mum]

Are those small bottles for her? Is she off her food a bit at the moment?

when you are saying those small bottle do you me the ones in the morning.  if so i think that its because i feed her at night that she won't eat much in the morning.  she never had reflux or she did i didn't know and the doctor didn't say she had it.  in the morning we generally battle to get her to take her bottles but by the evening as you can see she is gluping it down in a small space of time. 

with regrds to the pain i'm not sure there is any pain she seems fine besides except at them two stages in the day and of course all the night wakenings but is that not due to overtiredness.  so after her long A time this morning we still only had 1hr 35  sleep this morning.

i've read all the cry it out post and i brings a lump in my throat thinking about it but i really don't know what to do. i'm desperate and i don't want her dependant on neurofin to get a decent sleep

[becj86]

with regrds to the pain i'm not sure there is any pain she seems fine besides except at them two stages in the day and of course all the night wakenings

Is she not upright most of the rest of the day (outside of naps)? How does she go with tummy time? The NW's could be OT, probably at least some of them are, but are they a recent development? I thought you said they have been around for her whole life. OT NW's don't usually continue all through the night either in my experience - they tend to be frequent in the beginning of the night, then LO sleeps a good solid stretch or they sleep a long stretch and wake early buzzing and ready to go.

so after her long A time this morning we still only had 1hr 35  sleep this morning.

This is a good nap, honestly. I'd do a full A time after that and cross my fingers for another nap around the same length.

[caoimhe mum]

so most of the time she is up right and she doesn't really do tummy time as she generally starts crying.  she generally always gives me a good morning nap why doesn't she wake with pain there. 

[becj86]

Most LO's even with the pain will sleep at some point because they're exhausted. Did you have a read of the symptoms of reflux I posted for you? I don't want to say that's definitely the issue but I think ruling out painful medical issues is a first step.

she doesn't really do tummy time as she generally starts crying

This is another reflux pointer.

Does she sleep better on the car or pram on an angle? Could you raise one end of her mattress and see if that makes a difference?

DS has been severely OT and the only way to get him recovered was to do a really long night. I just think though, that if she is sleeping so fitfully, a longer night may not help her all that much.

[skatty]

Sorry I did post but my computer froze and it didn't post but I was going to say what Bec did about raising the bed. Also my dd would have a great first nap because she was just exhausted. When you go to the doc ask them to checki the ears too because these can be very painful and fill with liquid when LOs teeth, the tilted bed will help with that too.

I just wanted to give you some (((hugs))) and say that at those worst moments when you really feel you can't cope just remember that your dd is crying and not able to sleep for a reason and even though it is hard this is when she needs mummy comfort the most. Honestly everyone on BW will help support you both and try and get to the bottom of this 

[caoimhe mum]

i really don't know if it could be that but i'll try and it.  she doesn't sleep in the car seat and the pram only the odd time when i think seriously overtired as i only get 20mins max out of her. 

thanks for yer support i'm going to give her the nerofin again today for her nap as i think its better she sleeps than not at least that will help with her ot.  i'll raise up the bed as well.  its such a pity cause she is an independant sleeper and i think she would be happy if she wasn't so tired she is a totally different baby after the odd time of good naps   

[Khalam's Mama]

I would be sure the cause of any pain before doing anything as pp say.
She seems to have a long day. Maybe an earlier and so shorter 2nd nap would shorten her day?how do you resettle at nights?

[*Kara*]

As a mom who has been exactly where you are (I am the Kara from the story about CC with Alexandra)... I want to tell you that CIO will not solve this problem at all.  She will only fall asleep because she is exhausted, not because she has magically learned to self-soothe.

I am going to PM you hun!

[becj86]

Given she's already an independent sleeper, there's nothing to stop you APOPing your way out of the chronic OT and weaning that off again - being that's she *knows* how to do it, she'll go back to independent sleeping pretty easily once she's not so OT and dare I say it, when she's not in pain. You know yourself its hard to get to sleep when you're in pain and really tired...

Hugs xx

[caoimhe mum]

so yesterdays nap gave me 1hr 15 mins which was great considering we never get anything above 40mins.  so i have elevated her bed and i have started giving her baby gaviscon.  our night wasn't awful a few wakening but better than before.  she woke at 8pm think she had wind after she burped she went straight back to sleep and stayed asleep till 12.45.  at 12.45 i fed her but i gave her a bottle with the gaviscon in it.  she only took 3oz but i'm not worried about that.  she cried out a few times after that but i think it was in her sleep as it was one cry and asleep again.  she woke at 4.45am and up for the day.  an early day for us but that seems to be becoming a norm at the mo which is a very long. don't know how i'm meant to get her to our early bed time of 6pm how can i go any earlier to bed as she will be up earlier like around 3am for the day.  i'll try to apop a 3rd nap but it happens very rarely so i guess she will be even more ot. 

i went to the doctor with her today explaining the situation about the neuofin and the sleep.  so she doesn't think its reflux but thought as we have lactose intolerance in our family maybe thats what it is.  so we decided to stay on the gaviscon for 1 week see how that goes.  then move onto lactose free formula and no more neuofin until we see what is working and what not.  i'm nervous about that considering i just found and she is sleeping. 

so today nap 2 with no neurofin she was asleep for 30 mins and she woke crying but i went in and pat shush her and she went back to sleep.  so fingers crossed she will sleep.   

 

[caoimhe mum]

I would be sure the cause of any pain before doing anything as pp say.
She seems to have a long day. Maybe an earlier and so shorter 2nd nap would shorten her day?how do you resettle at nights?

hi Khalams mom i know she has a long day with but her second nap is already short that is one of the problems causing her o/t.  early on in the night iresettle with shush pat, then i feed her about 1ish and then later on i would shush pat but lately i have been giving her neurofin.

oh kara god you have been through it all and got the t-shirt.  i'm sorry you went through that.

becj i try to apop but she won't sleep any where but her cot for any decent period of time.  she won't sleep in the car as she generally just cries in the car so we don't use that form of transport to often.  the pram she will sleep max 20mins but i have to block out all visuals and only sometimes will it work no consistancy to it.  i took her into the bed the other night and tried to get her to sleep with me but she just cried and eventually she feel asleep.   

[Khalam's Mama]

Are you resttling in the cot? I found it really helped once I settled in the cot.
Great that she had a better night.
I thought from your op above that her second nap was 1.25hr and nearly 2hrs?
At 4.45am I would not even consider starting my day. How long did you try to resettle?

[caoimhe mum]

no she nomally won't give anything longer than 40min for her 2nd nap. 
its a hard one trying to get her back to sleep at 4.45am she has had about 11hrs sleep about that stage and she is ready to start the day i always leave her in her cot and she chat and plays for about 30mins and then she calls out to get up.  her cot is beside our bed so there is no sleep for me when she wakes. 

when she wakes at night i generally do shush pat in the cot and pupd when needed but thats not to often.