5 month old napping for only 30 minutes and up 13 times at night please help

[chatter]

Hi, I am new to the BW ways but am keen to make it a success. After lots of accidental parentening and little or no sleep I have started an easy routine. Although it is early days I am getting seriously confused and am hoping someone could help a desperate mummy out.....
I generally follow a 4hr easy routine however am unsure how long his A should be I read somewhere it should be 2-2.15 hours however I can't seem to get him to nap for longer than 30 minutes. I have tried A time of 1.5, 1.75, 2hours, I am not sure if he is OT or UT although lean towards OT. Do you have any ideas? Also the A time starts from wake up even if this is only after a 30 min nap is this correct?
When I put him down he is often wide wake and very happy should I leave the room and wait outside until he starts to whimper/cry and then shh patt or pu/pd as needed or should I shh pat until he gets sleepy.
I was also shh patting until he was asleep and stopping after 5 minutes is this correct or should I shh pat only until he calms and then leave the room?

Sorry its so long but I am getting confused and very tired...
Thanks for reading and any input would be great.

[Papaya]

Hi there and welcome to the forum! Really sorry this was missed until now.

Can you please post your routine for the past couple of days like this example:

WU/E: 7am
A: 7.00 - 9.05
S: 9.05 - 9.35 ... etc

Also the A time starts from wake up even if this is only after a 30 min nap is this correct?

Yes, A time is eyes open to eyes closed.

This link gives average A times: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.0  Is your LO just 5 months or closer to 6?

I was also shh patting until he was asleep and stopping after 5 minutes is this correct or should I shh pat only until he calms and then leave the room?

When you're just starting with shh pat you can pat until he is sleepy, or even asleep if need be - as he gets used to it, you gradually reduce the amount of patting until you just put him down and leave him to settle himself, and only return if he cries for you. I would stick with shh pat for now if that's working, as PU/PD is meant to be more of a last resort sleep training method. However if he seems wide awake at nap time it may be that the A time isn't quite right, so let's take a look at your routine

[chatter]

 Thanks for the reply sorry for my delay in responding it has been a bit of a blur.

My routine is as follows:
e: 7.30
A: 7.45-9.30am
S: 9.30 - 10.00
A: 10.05-11.30
E: 11.30
S 11:45-12.15
A 12.15-14.00
S14.00-14.30
A-14.30-15.30
E 15.30
A- 15.45-16.15
S-16.45-17.15 (does not awalys have this nap not sure if impt)
A-17.15 -19.15 includes bath and bf.
S 19.15 usually with just shh pat no crying within 5 mins of being awake.

For the last 9 days since formally tracking, lo then wakes 35 mins after bedtime for his dummy then an hour after that then 1.5 hours after that thoughout the night and if I am lucky I will get a 2.5 hour stretch at some point. he also wants to feed 2/3 times which i do if nothing settles him.
Some info:
Lo is a big boy 19ibs and 91per centile and am just starting solids.
He has also had a cold when I started this and is now in own room with a night light.
I am not aure if I should have the white noise on or can that be considered a prop?

Basically some issues I am having are as follows:
I am trying to feed LO every 4 hours but because of the short naps of only 35 mins he is often going to sleep straight after a feed. Should I bring feed forward or have another A time for 10 mins before S or is it ok to S after E. I generally try to calm LO down as part of A for 15 minutes ready for S.

We have gone from night waking of 15 times to 8-10 times and often being up at one time during the night for an hour.
I have tried wake to sleep exactly 30 mins after he first goes to sleep but it does not make a difference.

Shall I bring his bedtime sooner extend A time to 2 hours?
 
Everything I have read suggests he is not sleeping enough during the day but he wakes up happy and when i have tried Pu/pd he cries hysterically.

thanks so mcuh for your help and any advice you can give would be greatfully recieved.

[Papaya]

Sorry for the delay in replying  How have things been the past couple of days? Hope LO is over his cold now.

So you think discomfort could be playing a part in the short naps? Gassiness, reflux? http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0 Has he ever done long naps? Do you try to extend?

If there's no discomfort, I think the first nap of the day is probably UT...but he gets OT from then on in. I would try to extend that first A by 15 mins - do something interesting but low-key for the end of the A time, such as walk around the garden, or say goodbye to his soft toys etc. If you get a longer nap, try the same A time again. If it's still short and he's waking happy, you may need to extend a little more. And if the nap's short, do reduce the next A time a bit as you have been doing. This may mean the next E is before S, but try to have a short A in between (even if it's just a nappy change or wind-down routine). It's ok if you have to bring the feed forward a bit to achieve this!

The NWs in the early part of the night sound like OT, from all the short naps. Not sure if your LO is bf or ff, but it is still normal for a bf baby to have 1-2 NFs at this age - but if he goes 3 hours between feeds during the day, he should be able to do that at night too. Does he need his dummy to fall asleep? This could be a prop issue.

I am not aure if I should have the white noise on or can that be considered a prop?

No, white noise is fine - a prop is something that requires you to be there, so rocking, re-plugging a dummy, etc. My LO still has white noise on for her nap and all night, at 17 months - it's great for blocking out the sound of the noisy neighbours!

[chatter]

Thanks for your help I can't tell you how much i appreciate it.

LO is feeling much better thank you.

I have tried extending the naps but he seems to wake however I notriched over the weekend if he had a nap in his carrier or pram he would wake after 30 minutes and then fall asleep again a few minutes later so is tried and the happy smiles may just be because he sees me and is a very happy boy. (He tends to smile even when he is very upset if someone smiles at him)
I will try and extend his A time in the morning at see if that helps thanks for tip.

Last night was awful up 12 times alot of the times he was very bringing his legs up in pain becuase of wind.
The dummy is totally a prop and HV said to not take it away just yet because he has had so many changes but TBH I am thinking of stopping there use during the day and then getting rid at night.

Thanks for your help...

[Papaya]

Last night was awful up 12 times alot of the times he was very bringing his legs up in pain becuase of wind.

Poor wee man This sounds like a lot of discomfort hun - has this got worse since you started solids? Could be an intolerance perhaps? Or just having trouble with digesting - what time of day do you do solids? Does he usually sleep better in a slightly upright position, ie, in the carrier or stroller?

If he's in discomfort, I wouldn't wean the dummy just yet until you can try and find out what's causing that.

Hugs.