My 8 month old is up for an hour + in the middle of the night. Please help!!

[sbchic1999]

Hello,

I hope someone can give me a little advice here.  My dd is currently almost 8.5 months old.  She was a GREAT sleeper the first 4 months of life, sleeping sometimes up to 10 hrs a stretch.  Then around 5 months old she started waking in the night.  The pedi suggested she was hungry so I started giving her cereal at lunch and dinner (she is breast feed).  This worked for a week or so until her stomach got all messed up.  She would not poop at all during the day.  And if she didn't poop she would be up around 4 or 5 am for a couple of hours until she pooped. Then she would finally go back to sleep around 9 am.  Now we have her stomach issues straightened out so the constipation is not really an issue for us.  Then she seemed to just get up at around 5:30 and be up for an hour or two, even if there were no belly issues.  I think she may have kind of gotten used to this time from her constipation problems.  I did W2S for about a week and then that brought us to 6am or so for 2 nights in a row.  Then 3 nights ago she started getting up again but earlier now, last night she was up from 3:45 to 5 am and then slept until 7:30.  She will seem kind of tired at first then she is suddenly wide awake, not interested in sleep.  AFter about an hour I give in and feed her (while she is up she is not crying like she is hungry or anything) she will eat and then go back to sleep.  I am not sure if she is hungry or needs more A time.

For our sleep routine we currently rock her with her paci and stuffed giraffe that she loves for awhile until her eyes get heavy and she is starting to close them.  Then we walk to her room and lay her down and pat her while she settles.  Sometimes this is very quick, other times we could be patting, singing or just putting our hand on her for up to 20 minutes.  In the middle of the night when she wakes at most other times I can just go in there pat her for a minute and she will go back to sleep.  However, if she wakes at this hour (what used to be 5 am but apparently is moving forward towards the 3:45-4 am) and I don't catch her immediately she will be awake for an hour plus.  

Here is our schedule:

A/E at 6:30 approximately
S at 10:30 for about an hour/hour 15 min
E (milk/nurse) at 11:30
E solids at 12:30 about 4 oz
S at 2:30 for about an hour/hour 15 min
E (milk/nurse) at 3:30
E solids at 5:30 or 6:00 about 4-6 oz
E (milk/nurse) at 7:00
S at 8/8:30
Dreamfeed at 11:30

I currently don't give her solids for breakfast, maybe I should start?  

For activity time, she plays in her activity center, sits on the floor and plays with her toys, etc.

Developmentally she sits up (though can't pull herself up to a sitting position on her own), doesn't crawl but is starting to get on all fours and has attempted to pull herself up to a stand a few times.  She is REALLY attached to me and cries when I walk away from her.

I know this isn't the worst sleep issue in the world but I myself can never fall asleep much before 1am so when she wakes i have gotten maybe 3 hours of sleep and then when she goes back down I get about another 1 or so before my son wakes up.  I am so tired!!!!  And want to fix this problem quickly.

thanks!!!!

[katie80]

Hi there, (((hugs))) for the long NWs, those are never fun.  I notice a few things that could be contributing.  First, her day is really quite long at 13.5-14hr with only 2-2.5hr day sleep.  I'm betting she's OT when she goes to bed at night and that's causing/contributing to the NWs.  Is there a reason that her first A time is about 4hr?  That's a bit long for 8.5 mo and with a nap that's not full afterward, it might be setting her up for OT through the next A time.  I wonder if you were able to pull it back to 3.5hr, she might do a longer nap. Her last A time before bed is also quite long at 4/4.5hr, again after a nap that's not quite full.  That is definitely contributing to some OT and likely the NWs.  Ideally at her age, you'd like 2.5-3hr of day sleep with 11-12hr night sleep (or a 12-13hr day).  So, if you can't or don't want to change the naps around, I think it would help to pull bedtime back to 7/7:30pm (latest, meaning sleeping by that time).

Next, I think at 8.5 mo you want to start limiting the patting you do when putting her down.  I wouldn't change it now, I would work on the routine first.  But, once you get that settled, I'd start patting her less and less, using your voice and then slowly making your way out of the room (a kind of gradual withdrawal), so that she's going down more independently.  This may not be a main cause of the NW, but I notice that you use it at other times to get her back quickly, and while that's great, you want to try to keep the patting from becoming a prop, iykwim.

Finally, the DF is happening a bit late.  Tracy recommended for it to be done between 10-11pm, so as not to disturb a LOs sleep.  At 11:30pm (and no matter what time for some babies), the DF is likely disrupting her sleep cycles and causing her to wake more frequently at night.  Besides the time frame of 10-11pm, it's usually best done around 3-4 hr from bedtime feed.  If you bring bedtime back to 7/7:30pm, a DF between 10-11 would be right in line with that.   And while you don't need to necessarily offer solids for breakfast yet, it might not be a bad idea and could even help lengthen an ensure she's not waking from that first nap hungry.

[sbchic1999]

Hi Katie,

Thanks for your reply and the suggestions.   I will keep a closer eye on her schedule and make sure her a times are 3-3.5 hours. I have a couple of questions.

First, if she is up for an hour or two in the middle of the night that does not count as night sleep right?  Like if she goes to bed at 8pm and is up from 4-6am lets say and then goes back to sleep until 7:30 that would not be 11.5 hours but 9.5 right? 

Yes, I was just rereading BWSAYP and noticed that the pat shush should be phased out with her, which I will do gradually soon.

And the DF is quite late-sometimes it could be as late as midnight which is totally my fault, just not wanting to stop what I am doing before that.   But I am going to start doing it at 11.   I know I can't drop the DF yet because she doesn't seem to be doing a good nurse at bedtime.  She eats dinner between 5:30-6:00 and when I nurse her at 7 she doesn't seem to be that hungry but wants to nurse so I have a hard time holding her off for later.  So should I just do my best to nurse her at 7:30 by having someone else hold her, etc until then?  I know she is not getting the calories she needs at that feeding so she is very hungry at 11pm/12am.

Thanks so much for your help.  I am going to keep a very close eye on her schedule for the next few days and make sure she gets about 11 hours at night and 13 hr day with 2 hours of naps (about all I can count on from her-max is 2.5 hrs of naps per day).

[katie80]

First, if she is up for an hour or two in the middle of the night that does not count as night sleep right?  Like if she goes to bed at 8pm and is up from 4-6am lets say and then goes back to sleep until 7:30 that would not be 11.5 hours but 9.5 right? 

Yes, that would be 9.5hr, but I wouldn't try to get her to keep sleeping at that point, because it feels like morning to her body.  Sometimes you just have to take the short nights and try again the next day.

She eats dinner between 5:30-6:00 and when I nurse her at 7 she doesn't seem to be that hungry but wants to nurse so I have a hard time holding her off for later.  So should I just do my best to nurse her at 7:30 by having someone else hold her, etc until then?  I know she is not getting the calories she needs at that feeding so she is very hungry at 11pm/12am.

Could you feed her dinner earlier at 4:30/5pm and then just give her a little snack while the rest of the family eats at 5:30/6pm, so she doesn't feel like she's missing out? I wonder if she wants to nurse at 7pm for comfort as she's getting pretty tired rather than hunger.  From her routine, she's probably ready for bed about then.  If you start doing the shorter day, I think it's fine to keep nursing her at 7 and then put her right to bed afterward.

[sbchic1999]

Good idea-I will try dinner a little earlier.  Then maybe she will be hungry for a real feed at 7pm.  Thanks for your help.   You sure must be busy on this board!!!

[katie80]

You sure must be busy on this board!!!

LOL, sometimes... everyone wants to sleep through the night, right?!?

[sbchic1999]

Last night was not good. Up for almost 2 hours from 3:15-5 am.  Can you look at out how her day was yesterday and let me know where it went wrong?


A 7:15
E 7:15
S 10:15
A 11:15
BF 11:30
E 12:40
S 3:45
A 5:00 (she was up for about 15 min during that nap time)
E 5:45
BF 7:45
S 8:10
DF 11:00

I know the 2nd A time was too.long-peoplr stopped.over so she was up.  So her day itself was 13 hrs with about 2 hrs in naps so it was 11 hrs of A time during the day. Is that ok? What is my goal for total day A time? Thanks!!

[sbchic1999]

Another question-she got up at 8 today after being up from 3-5. So should i stick with 3 hrs of A time or put her down a little earlier to compensate for the interrupted night sleep? Thanks!

[katie80]

I know the 2nd A time was too.long-peoplr stopped.over so she was up.  So her day itself was 13 hrs with about 2 hrs in naps so it was 11 hrs of A time during the day. Is that ok? What is my goal for total day A time? Thanks!!

Yeah, I think that second A time did it for you.  I would have tried to have her in bed asleep closer to 7:30pm rather than 8.  I think with only 2hr of naps, you'll want a bit shorter day, more like 12hr total with 10hr A. Is she working on any teeth? Sometimes those long NWs like that signal discomfort.

Another question-she got up at 8 today after being up from 3-5. So should i stick with 3 hrs of A time or put her down a little earlier to compensate for the interrupted night sleep? Thanks!

I would still stick with the 3hr, but just keep an eye on her.  If she's starting to lose it, put her down early, but probably not by more than 10-15min.