Quick question about EW

[Jo1stbaby]

Hi,

Just a quick question.
My LO is 4 1/2 months, teething a little, has silent reflux (under meds), had really bad colic until about 11 weeks.  My LO goes to bed at about 7pm every night, lately she can wake anytime between 3 -6 am.  Sometimes the 3am is a feed but sometimes I can't seem to settle her well after.  Anyway the question is if my LO wakes about 5/5.30am but isn't due a feed until about 7/7.30am, what do I do about easy.  I've tried feeding her early but mornings she doesn't seem especially hungry, sometimes having 2/3  oz until the next four hours. So this really doesn't work.  Today she has woken at 5.30am (she was hot, it's warm here at the moment) but then was wide awake. So I got up with her, about an hour into her being up she was rubbing her eyes so I thought I'd put her down.  Well she wasn't having any of it, I tried for half an hour and then thought its pointless because she will be getting hungry soon.  I fed her 1/2 hour early (I always start my easy from when she wakes up so not everyday her timings are the same) she took 4oz and then after a little fight she fell asleep.  Now I know this will only be for about 1/2 an hour as I'm still trying to get her through the sleep cycle (she fights every nap, no matter how I tweak her a times).  Sometimes I can resettle herald she will go for another 1/2 but that will be it. 

My easy is now ESA, so how do I rectify this? As she only has half hour naps should I try and put her down again after a little a time?

In the day she does have more a time than she should but only because she's such a fighter when it comes to naps and then only sleeps for half hour. Not sure what to do.

Sorry question wasn't so quick after all.

 

[jessmum46]

Hiya   Could you post what's happened the last couple of days in EAS (or ESA!) format so we can have a look at the timings and see if we could change anything to help?  Not sure if this will be the case with you, but had almost the same with my DD at this age and eventually worked out she actually needed a big jump in A times - once we did this the EWs stopped for the most part and she was much easier to get down for naps.

Other thoughts - is her reflux well-controlled?  Any signs of teething?  Does she sleep independently?

[PixieD]

Oh lovely - I could almost have written this! Gonna hang around and be nosey, I have an early riser who then has a ridiculously long first nap so I'm guessing that needs chopping down and slowly we'll get back... Xx

[jessmum46]

PixieD - how old is your LO and how soon after waking do they go for the first nap?  Sounds to me like LO is tacking on night sleep to the nap if it's a really long one.......what do you think?

[PixieD]

Well he's just 16 weeks, so technically should be able to last almost if not 2hrs (and can during the day no problem) but first nap of the day he usually makes is to about 1hr 30mins and then cracks on with a good 3hr snooze. My problem is that I've been going back to bed when he does (cos a 5:30 start just isn't funny ha!) and he's waking me back up almost 11 some mornings so I started yesterday and woke him after 2hrs, he wasn't that pleased but woke at 6:10 today, so I'm gonna keep doing that and see how we go.... Do you think that's right? Xx

[jessmum46]

Sorry Jo1stbaby - slightly hijacked your thread!  But hopefully this might be helpful for you too   Hope you've had a good day today and hope we can help once you get a chance to post your routine.

PixieD - You can always try it for a few days and see what happens - you know your LO best and how he is reacting to it   I think at his age you probably don't want to cap too many naps though (certainly not to shorter than 2h) as it's very easy for them to get OT.

It may be better to push from the front if you don't keep seeing improvements in the EW - as in start to slowly stretch that first A time 5-10 mins and hold at the new time for a few days to see the effect, keep things very low key (we just cuddle/walk round the garden for a few minutes when trying to stretch).  Keep an eye out for OT - if that first nap suddenly becomes very short it may be a jump too far.  The way it was explained to me was that LO is trying to tell you they need more A time so wake up earlier to fit it in, but keeping the first A time short means they tack on lost night sleep to that first nap and so it reinforces the early waking (because LO knows they'll be getting a nap soon).    How many hours night sleep is your LO getting when he wakes at 5.30 (not including any time spent awake)?

[ZacsMumme]

Hey ladies, JM has given you some great advice.
There is a developmental leap around this age too, it messes with sleep etc
http://www.thewonderweeks.com/index.php/about-the-wonder-weeks/your-babys-10-leaps/mental-leap-4

PD I would actually cap that nap really...if your getting EW it looks like maybe that night sleep is being tacked onto the first nap. Maybe work on pushing it out a tad later and capping at 2.5 hrs to start with...you may need to cap at 2 hrs. No less. What can happen is your day gets skewed....this age is rough they really wake up!

J1 - refluxers often have flare ups during GS and teething, you think you could have that at play?

[PixieD]

Hi guys thanks for coming back - how exciting I love having sensible people offering advice!

Yeah I would never make his naps less than 2hrs, I was kinda beginning to work to a 4hr EASY as Tracy says 4/4 in the TBWSAYP book, at the moment I'm just working to his cues as he's literally only just hitting 4months, so our days timings are never 'the same' but they're not much different... I'd say he gets on average between 10-11hrs sleep a night (straight through) I'm not worrying too much as I've heard lots about the 4m GS and sleep regression coming up so it's bound to all go wrong soon anyway (*despair!*) he and I are just working out what he can take etc.

I don't really mind him waking so early, I'd like a 6am minimum if he's just an early riser, just I really feel he can go longer, he's not crying when he wakes but he's literally shouting his head off, practically singing! And there's no way he's going back down he's too wired and sooooo pleased to see you when you go in - eventually! And then I think I better feed him so we start the day on the righ foot or it'll all go skewiff.

I'm always very careful to watch out for OT/UT - poor hubby gets it in the ear all the time ha!

I'll see how shortening that nap goes, I'm not supposed to let him go past 3hrs anyway am I? Or is it past more than one feed as they make up for it at night?

Also, (sorry Jo1stbaby I didn't mean to gatecrash) the catnap before bed - 40-60mins... Most of the time I have to wake him up from that too - is that right? I try and get up there towards the end of a sleep cycle so I can be there when he kind of stirs but don't always hit it, seems mean to wake him but it's just so he can make it through the bedtime bit isn't it?

Sorry not sure if that last bit is appropriate for this thread - and sorry again for jumping in I had planned to just be nosey xxxx

[PixieD]

Ahhhh man I had reflux troubles with little man too - and I found gaviscon to be useless! Plus I didn't like giving him medicine at 3wks old so I looked into it and sometimes they have a bit of an intolerance to lactose - he was MUCH less uncomfortable when I switched him to the 'comfort' formula as it has 40% less lactose (or whatever it's called) in it... Just thought I'd put that out there...

I hated 'naps' I didn't think I'd EVER get there, and knowing when to go in and when not to was always really hard for me, I used to struggle with whether to pop his dummy/paci back in, or not, or what! You'll get there though, I think the best thing is not to rib yourself about it isn't it? In bed every night I tell myself what went right today ha!

Im sure the ladies on here will help you out good luck!!!! Xxx

[jessmum46]

Hi again

The first thing that jumps out at me is the reflux.  If that isn't properly controlled then there's no way that changes in routine or sleep training will work unfortunately   As PixieD said, Gaviscon can be pretty useless (my DD hasn't had issues but I work in paediatrics so plenty of experience there!) and LOs often need something like ranitidine/omeprazole - I'd suggest you have a look on the reflux board - lots of useful information there.  The short naps, waking screaming, difficulty settling all sound like they could be discomfort to me.  Teething can cause flares in reflux too..........

The paci is a great idea for babies with reflux.  Do you keep her upright after feeds?  Can you elevate her mattress? 

Personally, I'd get the sleeps in any way you can until you've ruled out the possibility of discomfort to prevent OT as much as possible, go for really early bedtime if possible (your 'bewitching hour' is probably due to OT....) - don't worry if this means last couple of feeds are closer together

Hope that helps in the first instance, am sure ZM will come in again with more help x

[jessmum46]

Do you think I should do her bedtime routine at 5 then? Won't she wake even earlier though?

It does depend a bit on the LO but here we don't seem to get earlier wakings even with an earlier bedtime - often actually we get a later wake-up!  (sounds counterintuitive I know).  The only way to know is to try it a few times and she may just surprise you   Even if she gets up at her "normal" time she will have had more sleep and may just help you get some of that OT under control.

((((hugs)))) you are doing a great job - and be persistent with the docs!  (say that from a professional point of view too....) - ask for referral to paediatrician if your GP isn't helpful xx

[PixieD]

Bless you Jo1st my docs were the same, not really interested as long as bubba is putting on weight - doesn't help you though! I've heard Ranitidine is really good? My HV helped me out by writing in my LOs record book that the gaviscon was ineffective so I could show the doc that another professional felt he needed something else, but then I changed his formula so didn't need to pursuit it...

Silent reflux is hideous isn't it, I really feel for you ((((((hugs!))))) it WILL eventually get better sweetie just hang in there xx

[Jo1stbaby]

Hi zacsmumme,

Do I have to start a new topic to come over? Which ever way is easiest.

Jo
Xx
 

[ZacsMumme]

Yup, I'll just move your latest posts over which refer to the reflux and rename the thread
Really, if your LO is in pain you can't sleep train