nearly 10 month old baby in need of nap advice

[hevasimpson]

Hi There
I really hope you can give me some advice (again!)
DS will be 10 months old next week. For about 3 weeks night-time sleeps have been rocky and now for a week naps have been too.
The night-time ones started off with a bit of teething / pooing in the night and by the time we changed his nappy he was wide awake and we couldn’t get him back to sleep. Then once that was resolved it felt like he was waking at 3/4 out of habit. Then we had a few good nights again and then it felt like it was separation anxiety as he just seemed in need of knowing we were there. We had an ok night last night, but it seems to be 1 or 2 ok nights then 2 or 3 bad ones.  Anyway I think we can resolve this as it does seem to be him needing reassurance we are there.
Naps were ok up until a week ago. He was doing 2 hours in the morning. Admittedly he wasn’t doing an afternoon nap everyday – if he did do one it was for 36 minutes or none at all, but he seemed ok and not over-tired so we were ok with it.
Since last week he’s started cutting the morning one to 36 minutes as well and we are either going in and trying to extend it (If we do it seems he only does another 36 minutes) or just getting up and trying later – which is hit or miss. Obviously very worried if we don’t sort this we will end up with an overtired baby. I had a look at the 10-12 month sleep gone wonky thread and it does seem to fit but I’m struggling to decide whether to push his morning one later or just get him up after the 36 minutes and trying again in the afternoon (he has never been very good at afternoon naps).
Today’s EASY was:
05:30 – wake up.
06:30 – Bottle
08:00 – Breakfast
09:45 – 10:20 – nap
10:30 - Bottle
12:00 – lunch
14:00 – tried a nap didn’t work so gave him a bottle in the dark to rest him
15:10 – 16:40 – nap (he fell asleep on DH and we woke him up as we were worried about bedtime)
17:30 – dinner
18:30 – bath / Bottle / bed – asleep by 19:15
It’s all a bit strange for us as he was waking at 6, going for a nap after 4 hours, sleeping for 2, we would then give him lunch and a bottle later (whereas today his bottles were all over the show). Normally tea would be 5pm, bath 6pm and asleep by 7pm.
Any advice on how to tackle this would be appreciated – should I push his morning nap back or just go with this pattern?
Thank you very much!

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs, sounds like OT may have crept in. He is really young for the 2-1 really. But not unheard of!
Have a look at these links, let me know what you think...i will be back

There is a developmental leap at this age that messes with sleep http://www.thewonderweeks.com/index.php/about-the-wonder-weeks/your-babys-10-leaps/mental-leap-7

2-1 info stickies - Hopefully may help identify if he is OT or UT...I suspect OT anyway from long days but we can look at tweaking the day
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163278.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=95670.0

[hevasimpson]

Thank you for taking the time to reply - and the hugs!
I do wish 3 weeks ago when he started refusing the pm nap we had cut his am nap - if I'm honest we were too scared as pm ones have always been hard work we didnt want to mess with the bankable 2 hours one we were getting in the am.
Last night was a better night after reading the separation anxiety thread DH slept on a mattress in DS bedroom on the floor and everytime he started crying put a hand on him to help him settle and he fell back asleep in the cot quickly  - so he did have to do this 3 times but at least it stopped him fully waking up and he slept until 6 - so a much better night.
DH took him to the drs this morning as he was off food & milk yesterday and his tummy's still not right - DS has got secondary lactose intolerance (was diagnosed at 5 months) so Dr told him to leave milk for 24 hours but carry on with food and plenty of water to give his stomach a chance to settle.
So todays EASY felt like an improvement - just bear in mind no bottles in there today:
6am - wake up
7am - tried a bottle
8am - breakfast
10:45 - 12:15 nap (yay not 36 mins!)
12:30 lunch
16:15 - 17:00 - nap (Was on DH though and he woke him up)
17:30 - Dinner
18:20 - Bath / Bed Time - Asleep by 19:10
Having read all the threads I think we're more comfortable pushing the morning nap and keeping that a long one (especially after today), just confused what to do about getting a 36 min nap in the afternoon - can you please give me some advice around that? E.g. if his wake ups and morning naps tomorrow are the same sort of timings as today what time would you aim for the afternoon nap?
DH is at home with him on paternity leave - we did the whole shared leave thing - I had 7 months and he's having 5 months - it's just I'm the researcher of the two of us :-)
Thanks again for all the support

[ZacsMumme]

That EASY you posted is pretty much bang on hun
My LO started this transition around 10 mths too and liked a long AM nap (if I capped that I got 2 short ones.) Pus I liked to be able to fall backon the PM if the AM was a bust
We did this (which is very similar to you)
WU 6.30 ish
A 4.5 hrs
Nap 11 for as long as he likes
   If nap ended after 1 and he was coping ok, EBT of 6pm.
   If ended before 1, or Z seemed tired we did
      CN 4hrs.15 mins later in the car (APOP) for 30 mins then BT 2hrs A later. (usually 7/7.30ish)

What I found is at first we had lots of CN days, eventually they got less and less, and then Z refused them.

With the main nap I also worked on gently pushing it closer to 11/11.30 over time, and if the nap was less than 1.5hrs I tried to resettle (APOP - any way I could) to encourage the long nap.

Does that help at all

[hevasimpson]

It does help loads thank you - makes me feel better about having to APOP the pm nap too! We had another night with 3 wakeups but managed to resettle him in the cot. He woke up at half 5 and we cuddled til 6 in the dark. He did a 2 hour nap from half ten and actually managed a 36 minute nap at ten past 4 after some milk in his cot. We both feel huge progress has been made and hopefully the night sleeps should get better too!
Thank you so much for your advice - the 3 of us really appreciate it :-) x x

[ZacsMumme]

Good luck
I do think the Ew will get better as you can gently push that nap out closer to 11. As long as the 1 nap main doesn't get too short or LO too OT as you move towards 1 nap hopefully the nights will improve too

There is a 2-1 support thread too. Feel free to jump on
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=231552.345

[hevasimpson]

Hi There
Since my last post things improved dramatically – thank you for your advice and I’m really hoping you can give me some pointers again.
DD will be 1 in less than 2 weeks. We resolved night sleeps – no wakings and morning wake up was 6am which we were fine with. He was doing an hour and a half to two hours for his morning nap and we were getting him to have a nap for half an hour to an hour late afternoon in the car.
We’ve been slowly continuing to push his morning nap back – by Saturday he was at half 11, but he’s started to do a maximum of an hour and 20 mins and we can’t get him to do the afternoon nap in the car anymore either. From Sunday he has been having disturbed night sleeps and waking up at quarter to 5! We have been keeping him calm in his room until 6 but he is awake.
Really unsure what to do. We were trying to keep pushing his naps back as in less than 2 weeks he starts nursery and they have lunch at 11, so to fit in better with their routine we’ve been giving him lunch at 11 and putting him for his nap at half 11 at the earliest – have we made him too overtired?
Yesterday’s Easy was:
4:45 wake up – kept in cot calm but awake
6:00 – get up and have some milk
7:45 – breakfast
11:00 – lunch
11:30 – 12:30 – nap
12:30 – milk
4:30 – tea
5:15 bath and asleep by 6pm
Today was:
4:45 wake up
6:00 – up and milk
7:45 – breakfast
11 – lunch
11:45 – went up for nap (pushed back cos of ews), he cried until 12 (not like him at all, normally he just goes straight to sleep) – slept until 1:30
1:30 – milk
3:00 – snack
5:00 – tea
6:00 – bath and asleep by 6:45
Any helps tips at all would be really appreciated – I am panicing that we are getting into overtired territory and unsure what to do especially with nursery looming round the corner.
Thank you so much in advance

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs, I do think he could be a bit OT, but with nursery napping at 11.30 anyway there is not much point in making the nap much earlier.

Even with Ew I would keep the nap at 11.30, maybe try a 1 off earlier nap of 11 to see if he gives along nap to catch up. If you get a nap shorter an 1.5 hrs then could you try a late pm CN of 20-30 mins then 2 hrs to BT?
If he naps 1.5 I think you can only really do EBT...as early as 6pm. The EW now could be OT EW not UT ones ...confusing aye!

What do you think?

[hevasimpson]

Hi there thanks for getting back to me. I do agree it looks like OT. We had a better day yesterday in that he napped from quarter to 12 til ten past 2 so a decent nap and yes agree need to keep the nap later cos of nursery. He was asleep by quarter to 7 last night and didn't crash like previous nights so I was hopeful but he had a disturbed night and was awake at 4! Since 4 he's been sleeping on and off. I'm hoping if he has a few days with a decent nap like yesterday night sleeps will go back to normal?
It is so confusing - as soon as you think you're sorted it changes again :-)

[hevasimpson]

just to update, today he did an hour and twenty nap from 11:45, so we decided to try and APOP an afternoon nap as he looked so tired. He ended up sleeping from 5-6 and then was asleep for night time by quarter to 8 - does that sound ok - just feels so weird getting him to nap at 5...

[ZacsMumme]

Sounds great! Maybe try a shorter pm nap if you find your night is disrupted from the late nap

[hevasimpson]

thanks again. Last night was slightly better - he still woke up at 5, but didnt have a disturbed night until that time. Unfortunately he only did an hour nap at lunchtime (it was also quite disturbed - he yelled twice during that time) and ended up having an hour nap in the car. He still looks so tired and on top of everything I think he's teething :-( think tomorrow will try an earlier nap of  11 to see if it helps him catch up - just hope I'm not being inconsistent

Really hope we can help him catch up before he starts nursery as I have a feeling it'll take him a while to adjust to that and also so he's not overtired for his first birthday!

thanks again for the advice - it's so nice to be able to go to a supportive forum!

[ZacsMumme]

Teething messes with sleep so bad sometimes have you tried giving pain meds before the nap if you suspect discomfort?

Slightly earlier nap ie 15 mins early can help with tiredness from teething so hopefully that helps tomorrow?

Hang in there .. 10 mths is a tough time, there is a developmental leap in there too around that age!

[hevasimpson]

Just an update - we have had huge improvements 
Saturday I thought I would lose the will to live as I think I missed his window for a nap however once he finally fell asleep he did 2 hours 15 mins. Even though he woke up after 2 I did an early bedtime of 6:20 as he still looked tired and he slept til 5:40 Sunday morning. Sunday a molar appeared (I'm finally recognising teething signs!) and he went down for his nap like  a dream and did 2 hours, I did another early bedtime as he was starting to look tired and he slept 6pm til 6am   

I think today he was catching up as he did a 2.5 hour nap and bedtime was 6:30.

I feel so relieved that we managed to catch the OT in time. and I really appreciate your support - from other threads I gather you have a fairly new LO at the moment 

My DS will be 1 on Sunday (didnt want to start a new thread, hence the title says nearly 10 month old  and fingers crossed ready for nursery!

Thanks again
Heva
xxx

[ZacsMumme]

Yay! Really teeth are just evil!

Happy bday to your little man if you have any more sleep issues later you get to post on sleeping for toddler now I remember my first post on there felt weird!

Lol yes, I have a 2 week old...funny how much I've forgot to from when Z was a NB ... I guess they are all different too