ew 16mo

[creations]

Have been pushing nap later but getting lots of short 1hr naps

What's he like before and after the nap?  Do you think the 1 hr might be his sleep cycle length and he's a bit UT for the nap?  I don't know what time the nap is but is it poss to push a bit further even if it risked an OT short nap because I found it easier to resettle an OT nap wake up and result in a longer nap where as an UT nap wake up there is no resettling.
Have you tried a W2S on the nap?  Rather than rousing be there for the last part of the short nap and begin to resettle either before he wakes or immediately he wakes so he doesn't get fully alert.  I've done that with DS through certain phases and found I could nip in, get him back to sleep and out of the room again within 2 mins if I really watched the clock and went in at the right time.

[Khalam's Mama]

It is def ot because it is only when I push past 11am. Earlier he will take 1.5hrs without fail. It varies 1-1hr20 so it. Is hard to know when to go in and let k for any period of time.

[creations]

I see.

If he's getting OT from the EW and needing a nap too early to balance the day my only other suggestion is if you get a bad night (for any reason, teething etc), not be in too much of a hurry to get him back to sleep so that when he does sleep he goes past the EW to a much later WU (if that's possible with K there too) which could help move the nap later.  I've done this with DS a few times, not disturbing him at night but when there's been a rough time from SA, teething or illness I've used it to kick start a change in routine.
Most recently a 2hr NW (for what? SA? developmental/language?) enabled me to push nap and BT.  After a couple of days the nap went back to it's previous time (12.30) but was longer so BT could still be the new later time (8pm)...and that pushed his morning WU an hour later (more like 6 - 6.30 now instead of 5).
I know this isn't a great plan, worth keeping in mind if a bad night crops up though.

[Khalam's Mama]

Funny enough I managed to get him to sleep until 7.35 this morning after w2s at 4.30am and a resettle at 6am (as bt was 8.40pm).
He napped 11.30-1pm so not too short. He survived until 7pm Bt so lets see how tonight goes. Should I still do w2s at 4 or 4.30? Not sure???

[creations]

I'm no help with night W2S, every time I tried it with DS he woke up even earlier the next night, pre-empting my W2S.  I still try once in a while though

[Khalam's Mama]

He woke at 5.40am again after w2s at 4am. Am I doing the right thing? I do not like these early mornings.

[Khalam's Mama]

This is driving me mad now. Last night he was awake on and off from 3am so no w2s. The few days before I was doing w2s at 4am and he was waking 5.30 to 5.50ish and not really going back off again. Argh so frustrating.
He has been having one nap but mostly 1hr20mins so nor enough and making the second A really long.
I just don't know what else to try...any ideas greatly appreciated.

[*Becky*]

it sounds to me like he is high sleep needs KM....and a 1.20 is generally OT when on one nap. Could you not go back to 2 naps for another 6 weeks or so? I think you said a long am nap was better for your schedule than a long pm - is that right?

[C&B&E]

it sounds to me like he is high sleep needs KM....and a 1.20 is generally OT when on one nap. Could you not go back to 2 naps for another 6 weeks or so? I think you said a long am nap was better for your schedule than a long pm - is that right?

^^ was going to say the same thing!

Hugs.  We are in a similar boat although E is still having a night feed every night that I cannot bring myself to wean as I *know* she will just EW every day .

[*Becky*]

I think it is actually quite normal for some lo's to need 2 naps up until about 18 months....DS did and DD is looking at being the same and tbh I would not describe either of them as being high sleep needs.

[creations]

He has been having one nap but mostly 1hr20mins so nor enough and making the second A really long.

When we moved to 1 nap (which was early) the nap was short like yours but it was just about impossible to get 2 naps.  I just ploughed through with the short nap and EBT.  Luckily nights went to 12+ hrs to make up for the short nap (at times up to 13hrs) and eventually the nap lengthened.  It was possibly the best phases we've ever had (for me anyway) because morning WUs were 7am instead of 5am.

[clairebear79]

When we moved to 1 nap (which was early) the nap was short like yours but it was just about impossible to get 2 naps.  I just ploughed through with the short nap and EBT.

We were the same here - took a good few weeks for the nap to lengthen so just had to ride it out in the mean time.

One thing I will say is that I have found with DS his early waking is very strongly linked with the timing of the nap.  If he naps early, he wakes early.  I do wonder if that is the case with your DS, KM.  I know you have the issue of him short napping if you push the nap post 11am, whereas before then he'll nap for longer BUT doing an early nap is likely keeping you in the early waking cycle.  He will always be shattered come BT because his PM A time was too long, and he'll wake early because he can catch up on his night sleep with the early nap.  The combination keeps him in an OT loop.

For my DS, pushing the nap later (gradually 15mins/week) helped break the EW cycle.  We had to do this at exactly this age, & went from an 11-11.30am nap to a 12.30pm nap over the course of 6 weeks.  We had a few hellish weeks of OT while we pushed the nap to lunchtime, & then he suddenly started sleeping in til 7am.  I never believed it would happen but it did.  Is that something you would be willing to try?

[Khalam's Mama]

The last few days he has been going down at 11.30am - 12pm so this is exactly what I am trying (make the nap later). Today he actually napped 1hr 45mins. TBH he is no worse with 1 nap than he was on 2 so I am loathe to try to get 2 back. He had started refusing a second nap when I had tried because of short am naps until about 4 or 5pm when obviously i do not want him to nap then or BT would be so so late.
I guess i will just grit my teeth and push through and just hope that it slowly creeps later over time. Now K is at school 9-12 5 days a week i will need him to nap later anyway as otherwise he would have to be up for me to pick up K by 12. It may well work out that he sleeps in teh bugy on the way to pick him up but TBH he sleeps as well in the buggy as he does in the cot so it may not matter. And if I am quick (like 1st 15mins) I can transfer to the cot when we get in.
Thanks for all your help.