Help starting!!!

[My little Liam]

oh i forgot to add that i have a textbook baby... except for the sleeping through the night part sadly, thats never happened...

[jessmum46]

he laid there talking to himself for almost 20 minutes until 1132 when he fell asleep. so his A time ended up being 1h42 instead of 1h30.

Actually, this is brilliant!  Great that he can settle happily like this - well done you!!  He will have been tired from the short morning nap, but may have still been a bit UT for this one when you put him down, hence the chatting.  Will be interesting to see how long he sleeps.  I think he may well need those higher A times, and hopefully will cope well once you start to increase them if he is textbook personality   Let me know how the rest of today goes x

[My little Liam]

ugh i cant believe it. he woke up after 35 minutes again. just looking around in his crib not interested in sleep. i tried to resettle but then he pooped and i had to change him...so that naps over. what now? A time of 1hr30 again since it was a short nap again or should i make it longer this time?

[jessmum46]

Oh   Had everything crossed here that he'd do a longer nap for you....

I'd go for somewhere around the 1h30-1h45 mark again - he'll be accumulating OT from the short naps so the amount of A time he can handle during the day is likely to decrease. 

When he wakes and just looks around, what happens if you just leave him to it?  Obviously if he's crying you need to go to him, but I wonder if you just left him he might fall asleep again on his own?

[My little Liam]

i dont know, ill give it a try but i couldnt this time since i had to change his diaper...
i dont think he would fall asleep though unless i went in and gave him his paci again.

[My little Liam]

ok now things are really strange!
at the 50 minute mark he started to become so fussy and actually cry a little. he seemed so tired but i was afraid putting him down so early would again give a short nap so i tried to hold him out as much as possible and in the end put him down after 1hr20 of A time. he was so exhausted he fell asleep almost immediately. lets see how long this nap is... i dont expect much anymore
he is also supposed to eat in an hour so i am afraid he will wake out of hunger. we'll see...

[My little Liam]

ugh! 35 min nap again...

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))) hun, it will get better I promise but these things take time. Can you fit in another quick nap today so he's not too tired for bedtime?  What about trying wake to sleep tomorrow?  He's always been a short napper, right? 

I'd stick with the same A times again tomorrow so we can see if there are any patterns forming.  If tomorrow's first nap is short again and you can't resettle, try bumping his first A time up to 2h the day after.  You may need to keep the activity time low-key - walking round garden or reading a book but if he's more tired going down for that nap you might have better success resettling if he wakes early.

You really do have my sympathy - DD was an awful napper at that age (it's what brought me to BW actually) and I thought it was never going to end.  But it did, and although things are never perfect, it is so much more manageable when they get a bit older and can cope with longer awake between naps.  Make sure you find some 'Y' time, even if it's just 20 minutes with a cuppa and a book - you need it to keep yourself going.

Keep posting - you're doing so brilliantly  

[jessmum46]

Just to say I'm going to try and get some more eyes on this for you to see if there's anything I'm missing or any other tips that might help you x

[My little Liam]

Thank you so much for all your help!!! I hope tomorrow will be better. Waiting to hear from anyone that has any tips!!

[My little Liam]

so we went for a walk in the pram and he fell asleep near the end of the walk at 1hr50 of A time. he has been sleeping 50 minutes so far in the pram but at home. he usually wakes 5-10 minutes after i get home so this is super unusual. do you think its because he is really tired from all the short naps or is 1hr50 the perfect A time for him when naps are short? should i wake him so he sleeps tonight?

[Ima shel Alon]

Hi there,
I want to second EVERYTHING that Katherine said, she gave you a fantastic advice and I wouldn't have said it better.
There are just some minor things I thought worth mentioning.
If you are EBF then you don't need to aim for 4h gaps between feeds, not many BF babies reach that till later on.
Is the rolling still a problem at night? If it is I would try and give him as much practice during the day, just do it together with him during the day.
I personally never flipped DS back when he learned to roll, it was important for me that he learns to sleep in any position. I preferred to have a couple of nights with lots of crying and then him learning how to sleep through the turning. There is of course the danger of SIDS that I have to mention so it's up to you how you deal with it.
On that NW you had when he was awake from 2:10 till 3:50 what did you do to try and settle him?
Katherine was right that your DS needs more A time, I also think that he starts the day UT and ends it OT, so I would be focusing mainly on stretching the A times and getting to a more appropriate A for his age. You would do it gradually, upping 10-15min every 3-4 days. That's how long it takes them to settle into a new A and also prevents OT. I would keep the 1:45h A time for a few more days and if you are still getting short naps then I would up it again. It's very very important you are consistent with the A times.
There is a slight chance that he needs a full A even after waking up from a short nap. I think there are not many babies like that, most of then need a shorter A, but my DS was like that as well, needed a full A after a short nap. But it did take time to figure it out, I wouldn't conclude straight away that your DS is the same as it's a big risk and you could have a total OT mess in your hands.

I don't think I am adding much, because like I said Katherine has said it all. You are doing great already, within time you will see the changes as well and it will get easier.

[My little Liam]

Thanks for the input!
by the way, are you from israel? i am asking because of your screen name. i am from there originally too

[My little Liam]

so this is how last night went:

BT-0720
NW-2220 (didnt get a chance to DF and then he woke. I thought in would BF but he wasnt really hungry at all)
NW-0310 (after about 20 min without resettling i decided to BF him since he didnt really eat at 2220. he was.very hungry. put him back down with paci but was not really interested and kept spitting it out so i just left him and went back to bed. he must of fell back asleep alone)
W-0620 but left him in his crib until 0650 when he started to complain.  should A time start at 0620 or 0650?

[jessmum46]

W-0620 but left him in his crib until 0650 when he started to complain.  should A time start at 0620 or 0650?

It's really up to you how to play this - you just need to pick a way to do it and be consistent.  Some people just start from when they get LO up, as long as they are quiet beforehand (which is what I do now).  Others count quiet time in crib as half A time - i.e. if he was in crib awake but quiet from 6.20-6.50 count that as 15 mins of A time. 

Personally when starting out I found it easier to just get LO up when she woke (with an early limit of 6am - treated everything before this as a NW) so I knew for definite when her A time started.  Made it easier for me that way to figure out how long she needed.  But like many things, there is no magic 'right' answer and you just have to try it and see.  Sorry if that's not 100% helpful.....