Attempting EASY.....Really Struggling!!!

[Robbiemum17]

Hi I'm new to this site hope I'm posting this in the right place! I'm really struggling getting my 15 week old ds onto an EASY routine. I have tried numerous times over the past 8 weeks but I always end up stressed out and reverting back to old ways. I'm determined this time is going to work and would appreciate any help/advice.

I would describe my LO and a spirited/touchy baby. He is breast fed (other than recently started giving formula as df) and has a silent reflux which seems to be well controlled with his meds. Since around 6 weeks we have had a good bedtime routine (or so I thought) he would feed, bath, cuddle and bed for 7-7:15pm, I would give a df at 22:30 and then he would go until 2-3am however that's were it all goes wrong! Following that feed he wakes every 1 and a half - 2 hours until we eventually get up around 6:30-7. However over the past 10 days he has been waking early for his df (anywhere between 9-10pm) he will then usually sleep until 2am then 4am then hourly wakings until we eventually get up between 6:30-7 am (I have been aiming for 7am when possible depending on the mood of my LO). I often end up feeding LO at both 2 and 4 but often only for 10 mins when he will fall asleep on the breast. How long should I be trying to settle him without feeding him?? Do you think he is just using me as a means to get back to sleep?

Once were up hes often really unsettled after appox 30 mins (appears OT i think??). So I will put him down for a nap which only lasts for 30-40 mins and once awake I find it almost impossible to get him back over to sleep and so the cycle begins again. I feel like I spend all my days battling with an OT LO and I'm worried that he never gets much A time where hes actually happy to sit and play/have tummy time etc.
I always swaddle ds for BT and naps and he has a paci i have been trying ssh/pat which seems to work well when initially settling LO after 5-10 mins but wont work once he wakes. Occasionally he will sleep 2-2:30 hours in the afternoon, should I be waking him so that it doesn't effect his night time sleep?? I have attempted to push his BT back to see whether that would improve nw's however he always shows signs of tiredness from 6pm ish and if I don't start his BT routine by 6:30 pm he becomes really distressed.
I have been trying for days to try and write our day down In EASY terms before writing this post but get so confused half way through the day I never seem to manage it.
I would appreciate any advice/ ideas anyone may have

[anna*]

(((hugs))) and welcome to the boards.

Just a quick one, but the first thing I'd try is pushing out his morning nap. After only 30 mins awake, he is almost certainly UNDER tired (not overtired) for his first nap, which leads to a short nap, which in turn leads to him being overtired for the rest of the day. If you can push him to closer to 1.5hrs if not 2hrs (do it gradually, 10 mins every day, don't leap straight to 1.5hrs) awake time - remember that A time includes feeding and wind down, it is everything from eyes open to eyes closed asleep - then he should give you a longer morning nap which will set you up for a better routine for the rest of the day.

With regard to nights, if you're going to resettle him without feeding, do it no matter how long it takes. Don't shush-pat for 20 mins and then feed him, that doesn't get you anywhere. At almost 4 months old I think it is reasonable now for you to settle him without feeding if it's been less than 3.5-4 hrs since his last feed. Are you sure he's not waking for his paci?

Re the long afternoon nap, I'd definitely not let him sleep longer than 2.5 maybe even 2hrs. Does he go to sleep for his naps independently (with swaddle and paci, but by himself ie you are out of th eroom when he falls asleep), or are you still shush-patting him all the way to sleep?

[Robbiemum17]

Hi thank you so much for your reply. So for morning nap I should be aiming to have him asleep for 0830-9 (if we've had a 7 am get up) ??
For his naps I often need to shush pat until his eyes start closing slightly then I place him in his crib and leave the room and he will continue to fall asleep alone. Should I be aiming to put him down sooner (more awake) ??
At nights I always try him with his Paci first but he often has a few sucks and continues to become more and more unhappy until I pick him up. Should I be trying to settle him without Paci so it's not a prop ?? He does usually spit it out as he enters a deep sleep! Also if I am going to settle him without a feed should I try to do it without picking him out of the crib or should I pick him up until he's relaxed then attempt to put him down ?
Sorry for the 20 questions just want to try get it all straight in my head
Thanks again for your advice it's so reassuring to know I can come here when I need some support

[anna*]

Hi thank you so much for your reply. So for morning nap I should be aiming to have him asleep for 0830-9 (if we've had a 7 am get up) ??

Pretty much. Some babies do need a shorter first A time, but at this age it'd be unlikely to be less than an hour and 15.

For his naps I often need to shush pat until his eyes start closing slightly then I place him in his crib and leave the room and he will continue to fall asleep alone. Should I be aiming to put him down sooner (more awake) ??

Put him down as soon as he is calm. Stand back from the crib. Watch and observe - he may mantra cry, fuss, wiggle about - stand back. Only go and shush-pat him if he is genuinely crying, and then only until he is calm or starting to get drowsy. It's really important that he gets into the habit of going into his cot awake.

At nights I always try him with his Paci first but he often has a few sucks and continues to become more and more unhappy until I pick him up.

This is why it's really important that he learn to settle in his cot, consistently. If he needs you to help him get drowsy before he sleeps, he won't be able to do it for himself in the middle of the night.

Should I be trying to settle him without Paci so it's not a prop ??

Well, you need to decide what you want to do about the paci. Basically, there's pretty much no way of keeping it so that it won't become a prop at some point (say between 4 and 6-7 months), but if you are prepared to go through replugging him through that time, he can keep it as a comfort item after that. If you don't want him to have it longer term, you'll need to look at getting rid of it.

Also if I am going to settle him without a feed should I try to do it without picking him out of the crib or should I pick him up until he's relaxed then attempt to put him down ?

Always try to settle in the crib first, and only pick up if he is getting more and more upset. Then shush-pat in your arms until he is calm, put back in the cot and continue to shush-pat there even if he immediately starts crying again. Try in the cot for a few minutes before picking up again if you feel like he really needs it.

Sorry for the 20 questions just want to try get it all straight in my head
Thanks again for your advice it's so reassuring to know I can come here when I need some support

No problem! Let us know how it goes?

[Robbiemum17]

Hi thanks again for your reply I have tried my best to write our day down today in EASY terms I ahve posted it below to see whether you feel I on the right track ??

I put LO to bed at 7pm he woke at 2000 just put paci back in, then he woke again at 2100 appeared hungry so had a bf for 20 mins.
Further NW's at 00:00 had formula 7oz (this would normally have been his dream feed at 2230 however I never gave it as he was fed at 2100) and 0430 had a 20 mins BF. He self settled easily in his crib after 10 mins following both these NW's

Up at 0650
E - 0710 (should I have left this feed until nearer 8 as he had fed at 0430?? I wasnt sure I thought it may get us off track)
A - 0730-0825 (Now awake for 1 hour 35mins) LO showed signs of tiredness at 0800 swaddled him at 0805 as he was becoming more upset shush pat for 5 mins the down into crib.
S - 0825 - 1010 ( he woke at 0905 took 25 mins to resettle him )
E - 1030
A - 1040 - 1135 (he became alittle grumpy around 1115)
S - 1135 - 1355 (He settled easily after 5mins didnt need shush pat)
E - 1400
A - 1420 -1545 (He became very irritable and grumpy around 1515. Did low key A until 1530 then took him upstairs - nappy change, swaddled, paci. He was crying ++ shush pat for 5 mins then his eyes started to look heavy (although he was still crying lots) I placed LO into his crib and did shush pat for a further 2 mins when he calmed down. He lay for 10 mins fidgeting but no crying until after 10 mins then began crying again. I tried shush pat in crib but he continued to become more distressed so I picked him up shush pat again until calm then back into crib he started crying again each time I put him in the crib it took 3 cycles of this before he eventually settled to sleep at 1615. Should I have put him down sooner?? After the 3rd cycle of shush pat he fell asleep almost as soon as I out him down, does this mean I maybe held him too long ( I did put him down as soon as the crying calmed or do you think he was just exhauseted with the crying ??
S - 1615

My plan had been to cluster feed at 1700 and 1900 before aiming for a BT of 1930 then df at 2230 (if he sleeps that long) or should I leave him to sleep for longer if he does ??

[Robbiemum17]

He has actually just woken after only 30 mins nap and is in a very grumpy mood!! I have also just had a thought re my above post should I be sticking to either cluster feeding or df or is it ok to do both??

[anna*]

A split feed 5pm and 7pm is fine. I would stick to a DF too BUT if he wakes up at 9, settle him without feeding. If it's 10, then I would go ahead and feed but unless he gets into the habit of sleeping until - and through - the dreamfeed, there's no point to it.

[Robbiemum17]

Just wanted to say thanks again anna* for all your help. I finally feel like we are starting to get somewhere although still have a few issues. LO now almost 17 weeks. Following our last post I have managed to gradually increase my LO's A time to 2 hours in the morning and he has been self settling when I put him down (still uses a Paci) but he still wakes after 30-40 mins it then takes around 30 mins to get him back over. Do I just preserve with trying to resettle him and hope he begins to sleep for longer or should I try extending his A time any more ?? He alway seems ready for his nap when he does go down?

He is then managing to stay up for about an hr and 30 -45 mins before is next nap. But I seems to alway have to wake him from this nap as I think he would sleep for most the afternoon if I let him and I wIrry it will effect his nighttime sleep. However he's often very grumpy about being woken until I put him back down for a cap nap around 5 pm - maybe OT ??

After our last posts I managed to use the shush pat to get him to sleep up to and through his naps and even got it down to 1 NW pet night when he didnt appear interested in feeding and often just needed his Paci and he would soon settle himself back to sleep. However in the last 2-3 nights he's been waking before his DF and needing help to settle again. He will then settle through the DF up until approx 2 am then he's waking hourly!

[anna*]

Just wanted to say thanks again anna* for all your help. I finally feel like we are starting to get somewhere although still have a few issues. LO now almost 17 weeks. Following our last post I have managed to gradually increase my LO's A time to 2 hours in the morning and he has been self settling when I put him down (still uses a Paci) but he still wakes after 30-40 mins it then takes around 30 mins to get him back over. Do I just preserve with trying to resettle him and hope he begins to sleep for longer or should I try extending his A time any more ?? He alway seems ready for his nap when he does go down?

Hey! To be honest, this is the PRIME age for short naps. The boards are COVERED with mums of four month olds tearing their hair out over short naps... a big part of it is developmental, so try not to stress too much... You could experiment with doing 10 mins less A time - then 10 mins more - see if that helps you get a longer nap. It's pretty common for the first A of the day to be a wee bit shorter.

He is then managing to stay up for about an hr and 30 -45 mins before is next nap. But I seems to alway have to wake him from this nap as I think he would sleep for most the afternoon if I let him and I wIrry it will effect his nighttime sleep. However he's often very grumpy about being woken until I put him back down for a cap nap around 5 pm - maybe OT ??

Bless him. It is rough being woken up! How long do you let him sleep?

After our last posts I managed to use the shush pat to get him to sleep up to and through his naps and even got it down to 1 NW pet night when he didnt appear interested in feeding and often just needed his Paci and he would soon settle himself back to sleep. However in the last 2-3 nights he's been waking before his DF and needing help to settle again. He will then settle through the DF up until approx 2 am then he's waking hourly!

Are you feeding him at night or just the DF? There's a big growth spurt at 4 months, so he might genuinely be hungry. If he wakes up right around DF time I would just go ahead and feed him, but then if it's a few nights in a row you could try doing the DF a bit earlier, in the aim of catching him while he's still asleep, and then after a fewnights of THAT start pushing the DF back a bit later again. Does that help? If he's waking hourly honest to god I would just feed him maybe at the second waking, hopefully he'll just go through til morning after that and you will both get some sleep! At this age it is PERFECTLY normal for him to still want one feed in addition to his DF.

It sounds like you guys are doing great!

[Robbiemum17]

Hi, I only wake him if we're coming towards 3 hours and he still doesn't appear to be stirring, which seems to be most days at the minute as I worry that it will affect his cap nap/ BT. Do you think I should maybe try leaving him to wake himself then maybe drop the cap nap if needs be or may that maybe make him OT for BT??

I had been feeding him through night but he never seems very intrested or falls asleep on me within 5 mins so I stopped and tried settling him with his Paci which worked well last week, but maybe we have since hit the growth spurt so I will def try giving him another feed and see whether that helps! I actually now feel guilty for not trying that sooner :-(

Thank again

[anna*]

I'd definitely not let him sleep longer than 3 hrs. In fact I'd probably wake him at 2.5.