9 months and still feeding at night - or is it NWs?

[babymunkey]

I'm sooo fed up with this. Beth still wakes at random times in the night and THE ONLY way to get her back to sleep is to feed her. I have tried everything - nothing settles her instead (have tried rocking, cuddling, PUPD taking her in with us, you name it) and in fact if I go in and don't feed her it seems to make her more mad than if I just leave her. If I leave her she just moans and escalates, plays and shouts, and starts all over again. She takes enough to make it seem like she needs it - 6-7 oz. She "mostly" goes back straight back to sleep and then will sleep until between 6.30-7.30 (BT is a fairly consistent 7.30pm). The times she wakes varies from as early as 1.30am to 5.30/6am. On the odd occasion she has gone through to 6.30 and we've called it a night. 

I was composing a post about this last night as it took her a while to settle (she is teething at the moment, so I went back and gave her meds) but then she threw another waking in at 5.30 and would not go back to sleep. I refused to feed her, and the end result was 2 hours of crying and we gave up for the day and got up at 7.15 (I'm nothing if not determined). She then had breakfast as normal, was offered a bottle at 9, and only took a few ounces, so I know for sure she DOES NOT NEED a FEED!!!!!! I have a real feeling that she is just needing the soothing of the bottle to go back to sleep. although she is fine at nap times. But she still has a bottle at BT so she goes to bed full every night.

What do you think? I'm happy to steal myself for a week of hell if we can go cold turkey. I've tried a smaller feed but she just cries until I go back and give her more. I think it has to be cold turkey or wait til she drops it herself and I'm not in the mood to do that I think - I'm really struggling and need more sleep.

[becj86]

So you're going in when she's shouting because she's waking the rest of the family? I wonder if you do just need to leave her til she's crying for you, yk? Earplugs for everyone else? Daddy-H camping trip?

Is her routine right for her at the moment? Its not an undertired 'cot party'?

[babymunkey]

Who knows......tbh our "routine" is very loose, I'm too tired, busy and stressed to figure it out. Anyway its roughly something like....

Awake between 6.30 - 7.30. 3.5 - 4 hours A time, then she will "mostly" sleep 1.5 hours. Then every 2/3 days she'll throw in a 30 min nap with the same A time (and 30 mins used to be UT for her)

We've never had 2 long naps - she'll then have a 30 min nap in the buggy or car at some point in the pm - I am normally out and about at that point I can't stand staying in all day. We cant go out in between naps and keep a routine as she'll fall asleep in the car at the drop of the hat, so if I have to go anywhere I make it in the pm (plus H is now at school so pm she sleeps in the buggy on the school run)

So she's getting a total of max 2 hours sleep a day - I know its on the low side, but her nights (if we get her back to sleep) are 11 hours minimum, mostly 12.

BT is 7.30 unless she's had an earlier pm nap, and I'll bring it forward to 6.30/7. She mostly goes down fine at BT, sometimes with a bit of shouting and complaining but we mostly leave her to it, or at worst I have to go back in and just put my hand on her back for a minute. 

I feed her as it means we can all go back to sleep quicker - I'm so tired, I need every minute of sleep I can get. I'm happy to try and leave her, but I am always conscious of not CIO. I guess there is a line between "leaving her to cry" and CIO..........

[becj86]

There is a fine line - is she calling for you? If so, go in, of course - I don't mean to leave her to cry... If she's talking/shouting to herself though, or mantra crying, then that's when to try to leave her though its certainly not easy and it does have you on edge listening for a change in the sound.

Does she transfer from car/buggy to cot? I used to go out at the beginning of A time (DS wouldn't fall asleep then) and only go home when it was just before nap time so then if he fell asleep in the car it didn't matter and I could just transfer him... I guess that worked for us because nothing's more than 5-10mins away here...

[babymunkey]

So here we are again......12.30am this time. Now 1.30 and she's not giving up. I've given her more meds and a drink of water. If I go in she'll lie quietly with my hand on her back, but then starts wriggling and babbling and looking up at me. If I leave her she shouts and babbles and cries, and crawls around til she inevitably bangs her head on the cot or starts to really cry. As soon as I go in she's quiet and we start again. I KNOW if I feed her she'll settle but I also 'know' she's not hungry.

Really really fed up and not dealing with this very well - I have no patience or compassion and that's bothering me too.

[becj86]

Could it be SA? DS has pretty severe SA at the moment and he just wants to sleep on me so I can't get away.

[babymunkey]

It could be Hun, but who knows? I gave in and fed her at 2, and she went straight back to sleep til 6.30 ( I'd put her to bed at 6.30 to catch up from yesterday's EW)

But see this morning she fell asleep literally the minute we were in the car to drop H at school, so she dozed for 10 mins after only 2 hrs awake, then I have no idea when to put her down, so put her down at 4 hrs anyway, knowing she would do a 30 min nap - she's awake now and shouting/crying like yesterday -  I'm leaving her to see if she'll settle.

I'm wondering if she's OT from the odd days where she only gets 2x 30 min naps?

I'm just fed up cos I need a break - she is clingy in the day, I can't do anything at home except sit around with her on me or near by (unless h is home then she's  happy with him) and I'm so tired, I can't face going out for walks (and can't do that as it screws our routine anyway)

[becj86]

Can you extend that morning nap and make it her catnap/shorter nap and then do a longer nap later on, something like this:
7 - wake
9 - nap
10 - wake
1 - nap
3 - wake
7 - bed

[LRoeb919]

I saw your posted and wanted to respond....I feel your pain! Literally! I have to admit, it made me feel a bit better to know I'm not the only one going through this.  My little girl is 10 months..she went for sleeping good to waking at least two times per night....many times more than that!  I'm exhausted and finding it so hard to do anything...she can't settle without me nursing her either. It is so stressful! I too have tried the pu/pd, rocking, etc...but I've never tried letter her cry as I know she'd last former. I can do pu/pd for 1.5 hours just for a nap!, I gave in a little on that...I have to out her on the couch near me after she's asleep to get a nap out of her. What is weird...she's the happiest baby all day. It's just at night she's wild!

She won't settle without nursing..and at the 4 am feed,she has a lot of trouble settling. When she wakes, I go in and she's sitting up or standing, and giving this shrill scream cry. Her shrill squeak is something new during the day too. She laughs during the day with it though. I read somewhere that when a baby has "new tricks" , they often try them at night...like crawling g in the crib or standing....maybe that is it?

I'm working really hard to out her to bed awake...seems like no matter when I nurse her, she falls asleep. My post is "won't sleep all night/ won't nap" if you want to read over it. I'm also going to try an earlier bedtime as she maybe overtired...we will see!

Good luck! And let me know if something works!

[babymunkey]

Sorry girls, not finding much time to get on at the moment!!

Well she's settled back to the later feeds - last 3 nights have been between 5 and 6. I can live with that better, although obviously at this point I would think she shouldn't need it.

I think the issue for me is the fact that I am not convinced that she is waking from hunger if she wakes earlier than that. And then I think she "needs" that bottle to go back to sleep. So if we have any wake-ups for any other reason than hunger (which is inevitable) then we're up against it without feeding her. She is piling through milestones like you wouldn't  believe - in the last month she's had 4 teeth coming through at the same time, had nailed proper crawling and is standing up and trying to cruise around the furniture.

Bec, I have resigned myself to naps just being what they are. My life's too complicated to try and "shape" them any other way. If I put her down early she would do a 30 minute nap, and I can't extend them. So I am guessing she might have been OT or UT on the days she woke earlier, but not much point figuring it out if I'm not going to try and change it - SWIM?

LRoeb919 - I@ll have a look at your post, hope your LO settles soon!!

[Erin M]

H, I had to resign myself to naps falling as they would with ds, there was just too much else going on to mess with them.  The 2-1 was the best thing for us ever, we finally get great naps now. 

[babymunkey]

Well I feel like a witch Mummy from hell. She woke just as we were going to bed at 11.30, I left her to it for about 30 minutes and she went through her repertoire of noises, cooing, shouting, head butting the cot, kicking the sides, blah blah blah. Then I went in and tried every APOP to settle her - gave her meds and a drink, then settled in for a long one. Hour and a half later and she's back asleep with no bottle. Not much pleasure in those victories eh? In the end exhaustion, cuddling rocking and a bit of Night Garden music nailed it.

It's just those nagging doubts that I'm not doing the right thing.....

[babymunkey]

Erin, I can't wait for the 2-1. Would solve all our issues I reckon. She naps well enough mostly, they just fall awkwardly to get the perfect A time before bed - that said tonight she was out like a light at 7.30, so something must have been right for her....

[becj86]

not much point figuring it out if I'm not going to try and change it - SWIM?

yep, swym.

Hour and a half later and she's back asleep with no bottle. Not much pleasure in those victories eh?

No pleasure at all, unfortunately

It's just those nagging doubts that I'm not doing the right thing...

Precisely why I have night feeds back again at 16 months... We got rid of them all and had no NF's from about 6 months til about 11, then the molars started and we've just been on an endless train of teeth, illness, moving, SA, etc. since then. In hindsight, I'd have never done another NF after they went away...

[Erin M]

Erin, I can't wait for the 2-1. Would solve all our issues I reckon.

I hope so, I know it has made such a difference for us. 

Not much pleasure in those victories eh?

Ugh, I totally get this too. 

Hope tonight is better, I understand the nagging doubts too.