6.5 month DS is fighting 2nd nap

[happymom20]

Hi all,

I'm a FTM and this is my first time posting, although I've been following EASY since my DS was 2 months old. He was colicky, so we had a bit of a rough start. This forum has been such a huge help to me. I've often been able to solve our issues just by reading others' posts.

The past two days my DS has completely fought his 2nd nap of the day. He's in transition from 3-2 naps, although I'd say most days now it's just two naps and won't take his third catnap. (Plus, there usually isn't time to fit it in and have a reasonable bedtime.)

I do our nap time routine, put him in his crib and he plays for about 20-30 min (rolling around back and forth, etc.), then he starts crying and won't settle. When he starts crying, I try to rub his back (never liked the "pat) and sing (he stopped liking the shushing at 5 months) and he will cry for the rest of the hour. So I just got him up and tried for an early bedtime. Yesterday I APOP just to get a 30 min catnap so he could make it to bedtime.

His wake time before his 1st nap is 3 hours (almost on the dot), and his wake time before the 2nd nap is also 3 hours. Not sure if he is OT or UT for the 2nd nap?

Here's his EASY routine (His wake-up time varies a bit in the morning, but I always wait to nurse him until 7 so he has some consistency.):

6-6:30 am: Wake up
7 am: Nurse
7:45 am: Solids (he just started solids at 6 months and was EBF until then)
9-9:30 a.m.: Nap (typically 1.5 hours)
11 am: Nurse
11:45: Solids (we're just establishing solids, so sometimes he's interested and sometimes not. I don't push it)
1:30-2 pm: Nap (really varies, but usually 1 hr to 1hr 15 min. I've had as short as 30 min and as long as 2 hrs here)
3 pm: Nurse
6:30/6:45 pm: Bottle (EBM)
7:00/7:30 pm: Bedtime (depending on how long it takes him to do down)

Any thoughts on what might be going on? He was teething but his bottom two teeth broke through before this. He can roll over both ways, but isn't crawling yet. I'd love any insight as to what's going on with my little guy! Just when you think you have them figured out!

*Update* It happened again with today's second nap -- three days in a row now. I APOP'd so he'd at least get some sleep, which he did for 30 minutes.

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs. I wound try increasing the A after his am nap and see if it helps him settle. Has he had a 3 hr second A for a while?

There is a ton developmentally going on at this age, it makes it so hard sometimes! X

[happymom20]

Thank you so much for replying! We've been doing the morning 3 hr A time for probably a month now. The afternoon 3 hr A time probably on and off for the past 2 weeks.

So I should increase his A time for his a.m. nap and that should help him settle more for his p.m. nap? Like maybe 3 hr 15 min A time in the morning and then keep the 3 hr A time for the p.m. nap? I put him down for his a.m. nap this morning after 3 hr A time and he settled really easily with no crying, but he woke up after 30 min and didn't resettle. Would that be UT or OT. It's so hard figuring these little guys out!

Yesterday I did try to shorten the A time for the p.m. nap by 15 min to see if maybe it was OT, but he didn't take the p.m. nap again. 

[ZacsMumme]

What about trying a longer A between his naps, so if was 3/3/3 A times try 3/3hrs15/3 and see if it helps him settle. What do you think?

[happymom20]

I think that's a great idea, I'll try stretching the A time before the afternoon nap. Plus, that may help get us to BT without being OT, which would be good because he's been waking around an hour or two after he falls asleep at BT, but that's a whole other issue!  I'll try that A time tomorrow and let you know how it goes!

I see on your signature that you're due soon! How exciting ... congratulations!

[ZacsMumme]

Good luck let me know how you go
Thanks ... A bit scary! But exciting too

[happymom20]

I tried the longer A time (3hrs 10 min) before the second nap yesterday and it worked. He slept for 2 hrs straight and I had to wake him at 4:40. However, his morning nap this morning was a short one -- 30 min. I had 3 hr A time before it and he seemed overtired. (He only slept 9 hours last night because we couldn't get him to fall asleep until 8:45 p.m.) Maybe his morning A time needs to be shorter and keep his afternoon A time at 3 hrs 10 min? Or maybe he just needed a shorter A time this morning since he didn't get enough night sleep?

[ZacsMumme]

So am I right yesterday was
WU 7 ?
A 3 hrs ?
Nap 10-11.30 ?
A 3hrs10
Nap 2.40-4.40
A 4 hrs
BT 8.45 ?

Today
WU 5.45
A 3hrs
Nap 8.45-9.15 ?

That is a long A to BT, and maybe too much day sleep if I have your yesterdays EASY right. Can you cap the PM nap also at 1.5hrs so your PM nap WU would have been ~4pm then BT 7/7.30?

hugs - they are tough to work out really!

[happymom20]

Sorry it's been a few days since I've posted. My husband was out of town and I've was taking care of DS during the day and working full time -- whew! Anyway ... so it sounds like maybe I need to watch his day sleep total and also watch that the second nap doesn't run later than 4:00 so he only has 3-3.5 hrs A time before bed. That sounds like a good fix. But what should I do on the days where he wakes up around 2:00 to 2:30 from his 2nd nap and won't take a 3rd cat nap? How early is too early of bedtime?

Here's an example ... yesterday his second nap ended early (2:00 p.m.) and he refused his cat nap. (I though he might need it to get through till bedtime.) I got him asleep by 6:40 but he woke 30 min later and I had to resettle, then also woke at 9:15 and it took me 2 hrs and 45 mins to get him back asleep! I'm assuming maybe he was overtired and that caused the night wakings? Here is our EASY from yesterday if that helps:

WU: 6:00 a.m. (played in crib for 20 min)
A: 2hrs 40 min
Nap: 8:40-10:40
A: 2hrs 30 min
Nap: 1:10-2:10
(Tried cat nap at 4:50, was not tired at all and wouldn't settle)
A: 4.5 hrs
BT: 6:40

What time should I have put him to bed if his 2nd nap ends at between 2-2:30 and he won't take a cat nap?

Sorry if that's confusing! I think the tiredness is taking over! I really, really appreciate your help so much! Especially knowing you're due with your second LO so soon!

[Aishi]

Hi sorry for jumping in but looking at your easy yesterday it looks like second a was too short . After such a good first nap I would have gone for a longer second a - a 45-1h20 min nap is usually UT. Did you not say you tried a 3h10 second A few days ago which gave you a good nap?

So I would adapt first a depending on night sleep but definitely not less than 2 hours and if nap is >1.5 hrs then second a of 3h10 which worked for you previously so hopefully you wouldn't need a cat nap then. EBT can be as early as 5.30 for some Los that add to night sleep. Hope that makes sense and helps! xx

[happymom20]

That does help, thank you!

I guess I always assumed that short naps were anything under 1 hr and that 1 hr was a good nap. (He was a chronic 45 min napper a couple of months ago, so anything over an hour feels like an accomplishment! LOL)

I also thought that short naps were typically overtired, which is why I tried backing that A down a bit, thinking maybe I was making him overtired, but sounds like I should go for 3h10 A time for the second nap if the morning nap is good. Hopefully that gets us closer to bed time.

That makes sense to adjust morning nap based on night sleep. He slept so poorly last night (9hr30) and this morning he was out of sorts at 2 hrs A time after WU, so I put him down then. And he slept great -- 2 hr nap!

I'm sure I'll be back for more advice ... this 3-2 transition really has him (and me!) out of whack! I hope it doesn't last too long.

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs, agree with aishi's advice

[happymom20]

Hello again! Funny that the title of this thread says 6.5 months and he's now 7 months! You'd think I'd have him figured out by now!

Run into another question on WT before 2nd nap.

I think we are definitely in a bit of an OT loop working on this 3-2 nap transition. Here is his EASY so far today:

WU: 5:50 a.m. (checked video monitor and he was playing with his feet, so I'm not sure how long he was actually awake)
A: 2hr25 (he usually does a longer A here, but he seemed tired and fussy. Only had 10 hrs night sleep)
S: 8:15-10:15
A: 3hr20
S: 1:35-2:05

Was his second nap OT or UT? He woke up crying and cried when I got him out of his crib. I tried to resettle, but it didn't work. He very rarely resettles. Before his second nap, I took him up to his room at 2hr50 min a time for quiet time, but he just seemed really awake, so I tried to top him off (BF) and when he's tired he starts to get droopy eyes if I feed him. He was wide awake. So I read him three books and then he started to arch his back, so we did mini routine (change diaper, into sleep sack) and off to bed. Settled pretty easily, woke 30 min later. I just can't imagine he was under tired after 3hr20 A time. Was it too much? He's done 3hr10 A time after a 2 hr morning nap and done fine.

So, I'm thinking I should go with an EBT tonight. He seems to be OT and I'm hoping maybe sticking with an EBT for several days may help. Not sure? We've had a few days with an EBT (sporadically), but I admit I haven't been consistently doing it. Should I put him down at 5:30 tonight?

[ZacsMumme]

Mmm maybe UT first nap then OT by second it's hard to know sometimes isn't it!
I know the night was short, but I think your going to need to get that first nap out later than 8.15 to curb the EW as he is tacking on his night sleep to that first nap.

I would try at least 8.30am, then push later every 3 days closer to 9
Yup if EBt works and he tacks on go for it as early as 5.30/6