Author Topic: Help - with everything!  (Read 5622 times)

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Offline jessmum46

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Re: Help - with everything!
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2012, 09:09:31 am »
If you get a short nap - yes, she'll most likely need a shorter A time afterwards.  If she does a good 1.5h+ nap, she might be able to handle the same A time again - just watch her carefully for cues that she wants to sleep earlier.  Fingers crossed for this morning xx

Offline EllieH

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Re: Help - with everything!
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2012, 18:47:45 pm »
I shall stick with this for the next three days but to save me a mammoth post, this is today's EASY:

W 7.00
E 7.15
A 7.35
S 8.38
W 9.35 - didn't attempt to resettle - going out - quite a lot of crying on waking
A 9.35
E 10.35
A 11.15
S 11.45 - resettled in crib after 10/15 minutes; didn't attempt to resettle on waking
A 12.45
E 1.25
A 2.05
Attempted S 2.20 - 2.55
S 3.45 - tried to settle her on me when she woke but no luck
A 4.00
E 4.25
A 4.40
Bedtime routine started at 5pm - BT 6.55

My As got far too long I think today.... Since I have cracked her settling herself, getting her to sleep can still take a while so not sure how that fits with the aimed for A time.

I'm going out for lunch tomorrow so that will skew things but I will do what I can in the morning before I go.

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Help - with everything!
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2012, 19:32:20 pm »
Hugs
You can pd a bit earlier if she usually takes a while to settle. Ie if she's taking 15 mins or so maybe PD a touch earlier so she will drift off by x A time or so. ;) x
« Last Edit: September 20, 2012, 00:08:18 am by ZacsMumme »
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline EllieH

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Re: Help - with everything!
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2012, 19:38:34 pm »
Thanks - obviously my post should have said "have NOT cracked her settling herself"....

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Help - with everything!
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2012, 20:19:24 pm »
Just to say well done - there were some longer naps in there too!  Stick with it a couple more days and then we can do some adjusting if necessary xx

Offline EllieH

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Re: Help - with everything!
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2012, 18:12:08 pm »
Oh dear :( Back to normal - or worse!

W 6.40 (although I suspect she had been basically awake since 6am)
E 7.10 (because she'd only eaten at 4.15am)
A 7.35
S 8.18 - woke after 7 minutes; left for five minutes to see if she settled herself - she didn't; tried to resettle in crib - no luck; rocked her back to sleep
S 8.51
A 9.20 - spent 10 minutes trying to resettle - no luck; crying on waking
E 10.00
A 10.35
S attempted from 10.40 but not achieved save for about 10 minutes on my chest.

We then went out at 11.35am.  I fed her at 12.45pm.  We got home at about 2.45pm, by which time she had slept for a further 20 minutes in her pushchair.

I tried to put her down when I got home - managed another approx 7 minutes in her crib and later in the day about 10 minutes on me.  I think any more info on EAS is a little pointless!

She went to sleep really early - 6.40pm ish - there's no way I'll get away without 2 NFs today.....

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Help - with everything!
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2012, 19:08:43 pm »
(((Hugs))) for the rough day Ellie :(  Those EWs with on/off dozing can really throw things off.  Good luck for tonight - remember tomorrow is another day x

Offline EllieH

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Re: Help - with everything!
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2012, 19:30:12 pm »
It is indeed and I am at home all day so fingers crossed.  And if all else fails, my mummy's coming in the evening for the weekend :)

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Help - with everything!
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2012, 19:34:38 pm »
Yay for Mummy coming - Mums are the best :D

Offline EllieH

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Re: Help - with everything!
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2012, 18:51:39 pm »
Today:

W 6.10
E 6.40
A 7.10
S 7.37 (or possibly 7.42 - I've forgotten!)
A 8.40
E 9.40
A 10.10
S 10.30-10.40; resettled in crib; S 10.45-11.08; too upset to resettle in crib - done in arms; S 11.15-11.25; further very brief sleep then gave up
A 11.35
E 12.30
A 1.05
S 1.35-1.45 - tried again at 2pm - no luck; S on me 2.25 - 4.05
A 4.05
E 4.10
A 4.30
BT routine from 5pm - BT 6.55

Any thoughts??  I really don't feel like I'm getting anywhere.

I don't know whether just to give up and let her sleep on me for a while....whether to introduce some formula and see if that makes a difference...whether to dedicate a week to shh/pat...

For what it's worth, I'm not convinced that reflux is bothering her so far as sleep is concerned....

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Help - with everything!
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2012, 10:03:34 am »
Hi again,

I think you're being really hard on yourself - that first nap was about an hour which is a long way from the extremely short naps you were having.  It may have been a touch UT which is why you didn't get a full nap - could you extend that first A time another 10 mins? 

For what it's worth, I'm not convinced that reflux is bothering her so far as sleep is concerned....
You are her Mum and you know her best :)  We can only offer advice based on what we know and have experienced.  For many Mums, sleeping difficulties go along with reflux, but it's not the only cause of short naps and you have to trust your instincts.

Her second and third naps were probably OT if you don't think discomfort was an issue.

I don't know whether just to give up and let her sleep on me for a while....whether to introduce some formula and see if that makes a difference...whether to dedicate a week to shh/pat...
I think it depends how you're feeling at the moment.  If the nap situation is really getting you down, I'd say just take a break and let her sleep on you for a bit and spend some time enjoying your precious baby.  If you feel ready to commit to sleep training and are certain there are no discomfort problems, then we'll all be here to support you.  FWIW I don't think formula is going to solve your issues, but that's your call :)



Offline EllieH

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Re: Help - with everything!
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2012, 16:48:42 pm »
You're probably right - and yes, the days when I do get an hour at least for that first nap are better than they were.  I'll see what I can do about getting the A out to 1h40 (it was short today (1h 30) and I only got 45 minutes) but it's really hard when she's crying, because I just feel that must be a sign she wants sleep.

Also, if she's short on the first S, it upsets all the timings from then on so I don't see how I keep to 3-hourly feeding and also an A time of 1h40, so then the A times just get longer and longer to try and make it work...

I'm going to go back and look again at the reflux symptoms.  It may be that the meds are helping but the only possible symptoms she seems to have now are occasional spit up, recurrent hiccups and the sleeping problems.

If I do want to give sleep training a concerted go (and no, I'm not *sure* there is no discomfort), how do you think I'm best to go about it?  If I haven't held her until she falls asleep in my arms, she'll typically be crying a lot by the time she gets to her bed.  Do I shh/pat in her bed?  What if that just makes her cry more?  How long do I do it for before giving up on a nap?  Is there any period of crying that I can 'allow' as part of it?  Once she's asleep (or appears to be), how long do I carry on shh/pat for?  Sorry for all the ?s - it's just that if I'm going to do it, I need to get my info right.

I have clubs with her on Monday and Tuesday mornings (11am and 10am) - can I still sleep train with those in the diary?

I know she *can* put herself to sleep as she can and does do so in the middle of the night.

Also, I don't at this stage feel able to give up feeding her to sleep in the evening - is that a problem?

I agree re formula - but part of the reason for doing it is to give me a break (though that only works at weekends as I'm here on my own during the week).

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: Help - with everything!
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2012, 20:35:15 pm »
Hugs, it's also really really common for them to short nap at this age, some will do it no matter what you try...typically they come right around 6 mths ...like there's a nap switch or something ::) ;)
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 20:37:09 pm by ZacsMumme »
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Help - with everything!
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2012, 10:14:59 am »
If you want to use formula to give yourself a break - that's fine :D  We all need a break at times!  You could express instead if that's an option for you?

If I do want to give sleep training a concerted go (and no, I'm not *sure* there is no discomfort), how do you think I'm best to go about it?  If I haven't held her until she falls asleep in my arms, she'll typically be crying a lot by the time she gets to her bed.  Do I shh/pat in her bed?  What if that just makes her cry more?  How long do I do it for before giving up on a nap?  Is there any period of crying that I can 'allow' as part of it?  Once she's asleep (or appears to be), how long do I carry on shh/pat for?  Sorry for all the ?s - it's just that if I'm going to do it, I need to get my info right.

I have clubs with her on Monday and Tuesday mornings (11am and 10am) - can I still sleep train with those in the diary?
Sleep training will inevitably involve some crying as LO protests the change - the goal of sleep training is not to prevent her crying, it is to give her the skills to become an independent sleeper.  The important part is that you stay with her through the crying so that you maintain her trust and can comfort her through the change.  It's ok to leave her if she is 'mantra crying' which is part of LO settling - but if it's a proper 'I need you' then you stay with her.

To make it as gentle as possible on you both, I would use shh-pat in your arms until she is almost asleep, then put her down in her bed and carry on shh-pat until she is asleep.  Personally I would stop once she's asleep, but I think Tracy suggests doing it for a few minutes longer until LO is in a deeper sleep.  Gradually over time you reduce the amount you do in your arms and do more in the crib, until all your shh-pat is in the crib.  You then stop your shh-pat earlier and earlier so you pat until drowsy, then until calm but awake, then stop the shh-pat all together.

It will take time - I would try for naps for max 45 mins, then take a break, do some low-key A time and try again in an hour or so.  She may skip some naps, particularly in the first few days.  It is ok to do sleep training just for naps.  Feeding to sleep in the evening is totally your call.  If it doesn't seem to be affecting her ability to self settle at night and you both enjoy it, then stick with it.

With your clubs - I'd see if you can clear the diary for just a few days when you start out so that you have some consistency for LO to get used to the new 'system' for going to sleep.  After that it won't matter quite so much if you have the odd day where naps get messed up.  From my own experience though - as LO grows and A times/nap times change, it's been hard to consistently continue an activity at the same time every week and we've ended up changing things around quite a bit.  That's just my way of doing it though - for me, going to a club at nap time wasn't worth it if it meant I had an overtired cranky baby the rest of the day!  If your LO will nap in the car/pram you may find it a bit easier though :)