10 week old EASY - trying to work around school runs has thrown everything

[lynners]

I’ve been on here earlier with LO’s EASY and the general opinion was that he was too young to be in a routine (around 6  weeks), however since then I managed to get him on a pretty good 3 hour-ish EASY.  His waking times in the morning are very varied but we pretty much had a cycle of 1 h 15m awake time and 1 ˝ -2 hour naps.  Not too bad.

I’d been rather stressed though trying to jiggle the various endings to the day coordinating my two DS’s BT’s (and also trying to get out during the day because DS2 doesn’t sleep well out and about.)  I am stupidly nap obsessed and have a post on The Couch about how crazy stressed I get.  My next phase has been the fact that I now have a school run to contend with which of course has completely thrown our routine.  This is our third day.  The lovely ladies on the couch have suggested I post my EASY to see if I can get any help.  (They’ve also suggested that I shouldn’t be so averse to AP to help me get through this!)

Main issues are horrible EW’s at the moment.  Used to be able to get through to about 6 with a 10 o’clock DF and one wake up at 3 or 4.  Not sure how to deal with EW and is creating long and OT days.  Also jiggling these school runs making it impossible to get good regular naps.  (Need to be out of he houe between 8.45 and 9.10, and 3.10 and 3.30 as of next week)  At least want to be working with the best A times possible and not sure I am.   Would really appreciate any comments.  Today only had to contend with school drop off as Grandma helping this week.  Next week will have to contend with 3.20 pick up too.  Have at least been teaching LO to sleep in buggy in front  room so can push out when need to.  So far has woken up the moment we push out the door but at least he’s ready in the buggy when we need to go.  Anyway sorry for the thesis, over to the EASY…  really horrid day

E-5.10 (Couldn’t get him back to sleep afterwards – fed until 6.05 which was pretty crazy.  Normally feeds 10/15 min then pulls off.  A time is normally 1 hour before being put to bed – 1 h10, 1h 15 total - but as was still in dark and swaddled to 6.05, I gave a little bit ‘normal’ A time before putting him to sleep in buggy in Living Room at 6.20.  Need him to sleep    there so can push out when DS1 goes to school.  He then got hiccups and finally got to sleep at 6.55)
S-6.55
Awake-7.40 When we were having breakfast in room.  Stirring half awake half asleep/settling .  Had to take DS1 upstairs to get ready, but when checked    later…
S-8.30
Awake-8.45 when had to push out to school
E-9.10 (Bed at 9.20, Hiccups 9.25 but calm until 9.50, Mantra crying verging on OT crying.  About to go in when stopped)
S-10
Awake-10.30 with a few quick screams (must be OT! )but then calm
S-10.55
Awake-11 calm but trying to sleep
S-11.15
Awake and E-12.35 (Grandma doing bottle feed to try and get him on bottle.  Only took 40ml.  1.40 to bed, didn’t sleep until 2.05 but calm)
S-2.05
Awake-2.50 (calm so didn’t know if should leave to settle.  Also though if I got him up would probably have to do a feed and would undo ‘good work of Grandma’s bottle)
Got up at 3.15 as looked wide awake (have video monitor)  Started rubbing eyes straight away – Aaagh!!  DS1 desperate to play with him so felt like couldn’t put him straight back down. Put to bed at 3.30ish.  Screamed his    head off. Tries to shush but felt bad as was probably hungry.  Ended up feeding for about 15 mins then back to bed.  Took forever to go to sleep – for 10 minutes! Very calm with the occasional single scream out, followed by horrible 5 minute screaming at the end while I was stuck with DS1 in the loo.
S-5.05 Insane/Awful
5.15 Awake (calm then crazy screaming so ended up slinging and taking out for a walk with DS1 – completely AP’d)
6.00 S in sling
6.10 Awake – calm (crazily!) – Headed home and fed for bed. In bed by 7.15.     Currently calm/awake in bed at 7.30.  (Can’t believe calm.  Hope he stays this way as I’ve arranged to meet up with a friend for a couple of hours before 10.00 DF.  First time out since LO born..and yes worse day so far with LO.

Not sure if I’ve been starting with a UT situation, because the wakings are calm, and then ending up with OT, or if it’s all just OT.  Would really appreciate help.  Feel very lost.  At least if we weren't having EW's we'd have an ok start.  Just don't ever seem to be able to put DS back to sleep anytime he wakes after 5.00 am (and it's been the two mornings in a row after school days that he's woken as early as 5) - I'm sure I'm not the only one with that problem!   
 

[lynners]

Extra question please.  (Have read the FAQ on EW's and I'm just not sure.)

Do you think I'm creating the EW situation by feeding him at this time (5-5.45) - not sure that he would need it after his previous NW's which at the earliest are 2.30 but sometimes 4.00.  He can easily manage at least 3 hours before feeds generally. He rarely wakes howling for food - just loud whimpers (that's true of the 2.40-4 feed too).  I just get paranoid that he'll wake up DS1 so feed him - perhaps I need to leave him for longer then try sh/pat?
I just find that if I feed him around 5 he's then pretty wide awake so I get him up for the day.  Don't want to reinforce the EW situation though.

Bizarrely though if he gets up that early it gives me a chance to give him a bigger/proper nap in the buggy before we head out for school.  If he woke at the 'ideal' time of 7 it would only give him a max of half hour in the buggy before we headed out to school and so far he always wakes as soon as we start moving  So I'd be heading in to an OT situation straight away (although perhaps with so many EW's anyway I have an underlying OT scenario anyway ??)

[lynners]

Hi there, 

Would really appreciate someone looking at this please.   Am getting EASY and timing obsessed.  Worried I’m making myself ill.  Already have ladies on The Couch trying to calm me down but still being ridiculous 

Had very bad post natal depression with DS1 and can scarily feel myself going down the same route.  Very teary. Mother-in-law has been helping me and cannot understand this constant time watching and looking at him on the monitor to see what’s going on.  She really wants me to be able to rest when he’s resting but I am constantly watching the monitor because he often wakes up without a sound and I feel I need to know exactly when his A time starts.  I soooo need to relax.

If it was up to my MIL we’d be chucking the whole BW/EASY thing out the window.  Frankly I can understand, the way I am foolishly letting it stress me out.  Even if I go down the route of APing more as suggested by some of the ladies on The Couch I think I would still be clock/monitor watching to constantly try and avoid the OT monster.

ANY EASY tweaking suggestions would be really gratefully received.


DF-10
E-2.45
E-5.45 (in to buggy 6.45 in living room)
S-7.00
Awake-8.45 (as pushed buggy to school)
E-9.10 (to bed 9.45)
S-10.05
Awake-10.50 (maybe his A time should be getting longer???)  Left him in his basket – calm, happy
S-11.10
A-12.10
S-1.45 (bed at 1.15) – Tried doing an Aussie swaddle so LO could access fingers.  Just broke out of it, so 45 minute sleep could have been due to either this or wrong A time?)
A-2.20 (calm)
Out of bed 2.45,
E-2.45 -Bed 3.15 (From here on Grandma took over and sent me to bed until 6.00 as I was in floods of tears. Not coping generally and not great crying in front of DS1.  Feeling very overwhelmed at the moment)
S–4.00
Awake crying – 5.00
E-5.00
Bed - 6.00 (I naturally would have put him to bed a bit earlier thinking OT but he managed to go to sleep by 6.05 – Grandma seems to be doing better with instinct than I am by clock-watching and trying to read clues.  Is there something to be learnt there by me?)
6.50 awake – calm
E-6.55
Bath-7.10
E-7.20
S-8.15

 

[*Kara*]

Hi there

Please remember that we are all mom's too and have LO's to tend to.... we do try to get to you as soon as we can though

First, big hugs.  This is a tough age as they come out of that sleepy newborn phase.

Second, relax hun.  No baby has ever had permanent long term damage from poor sleep (note that your LO actually does pretty well overall!).

Third, great that you are looking at starting with EASY, but you do still need to be flexible... things can be very different day to day before the 6 month mark.. There are so many growth spurts and developmental things going on during this time.  Babies become much better nappers once they get to 6 months...

You have had a look at the sample routines?  If not, here you are:
chronological EASY samples, 0-3 months

And a link to age appropriate A times:
Average A times and "Is my baby ready to increase A time?"

Have you taken the Edinburgh quiz hun?  It will help you recognize signs that PPD is an issue... we need a healthy and happy momma for that baby   Remember that PPD is not your fault and you don't have to live with it.
Edinburgh Test - here for those unsure if they have PPD

Hope this helps a touch... and yes, AP is fine!  Especially at this age!

[lynners]

So sorry if I came across as a bit pushy.  I've clearly hit selfish, demented mode.  Sorry.

Yes I had looked at those links before thanks.  The sample routines are interesting but unfortunately difficult to work around this school run business.  And I know the A time one very well - my DS1 followed it almost to the 'T'.

I have been aiming for an A time of 1h 15m with DS2 which is typical on this listing but is sometimes giving me 45 minute naps with calm wakings.  I know I should probably increase the A time a little but there seems to be so much other OT stuff going on and he's maybe too young for that?

Any thoughts on my EW's or should I post a question on the sleep board?  This morning he woke at 5.00 and kept feeding and feeding and feeding until 5.45.  I kept pulling him off (as per Pantley's removal technique) and he just kept getting back on until finally asleep at 5.45.  Woke up crying when I put him in crib.  Decided to get him up for a bit of normal A time and the put him back down.  Went down ok but rubbish nap.  So wish I could turn this 5.00 feed in to a night feed rather than the start of the day.  Should I be making more of an effort re. sh/pat.  Just can't see how that would work this time in the morning when they're verging on being too awake.  Has anyone had any luck at this time?

I will do the Edinburgh test - quite nervous to TBH.

[willowsmummy]

45 min naps can also be developmental hun and something all babies go through but will grow out of it!! Aslong as he wakes happy from a nap he has probably had enough, just be careful to watch for early tired signs in the next A time!! I would personally try to get him back down after a 5am feed use shhh/pat or if that doesnt work and you use a different method that works for you

Also just seen your DF, does he wake up for it or do you wake him? If you are waking
Him i would try push it later say 10.30-11 as if he is going down at 8 and up again at 10 for a feed he probably isnt taking a full feed but that extra 30-60mins may help. IYKWIM?

Xx

[willowsmummy]

Also try not to clock watch!! I made this mistake too just read babys cues!! xx

[lynners]

Thanks so much for your reply,

Interesting comment about the DF.  No he's definitely asleep when he takes the feed and it does feel like a good feed.  Think I should still move it to later?  So knackered by then want to go to bed, but maybe it's worth shifting it if it might move everything only.   He can be asleep anywhere between 7 and 8 - wonder if I shift accordingly?

Yes will sh/pat this 5 o'clock feed.  Will make concerted effort this weekend.  So worried will wake up DS1, particularly during week as has just started school, but weekend will be easier.  Health visitor actually suggested if the 5 o'clock was too close to previous feed to just sh/pat etc e.g. if feed was maybe 2 hours or less before to just sh/pat, if more to then feed and sh/pat if necessary. What do you think.  LO easily lasts 3 hours plus between feeds during day.  If I just sh/pat do you think I should 'give in' and feed after a certain period eg. 45 minutes because will be hungry?  When I've done that previously it's normally the feed that actually ends up getting him to sleep rather than the sh/pat so not sure I'm 'teaching' him anything.

Also Health Visitor suggested that I should start offering both breasts during day feeds to ensure completely tanked up.  At the moment only offer one side normally, but both at last feed before bed.  Any opinions?

Today was as follows - (probably too dull, with too much detail, but any comments about A times to aim for would really help - Very confused about last nap after long A time - could have sworn it would have been an OT crying nap.)

5.00 E – didn’t stop eating til 5.45. put him back in crib.  Crying etc. Decided to get him up for a bit more A time, get out of swaddle, change and back at 6.10.  Had found a way with woombie convertor to let just hand out.  Took him a while to get used to it.
6.40 S (in crib)
7.00 Awake – arm completely out of woombie
7.10 Asleep
7.40 Awake
8.15 E (In buggy at 8.30, just fell asleep before waking up when we headed out at 8.45 – Aaagh)
9.20 – S in buggy on way home – kept pushing, had a few little wake ups
10.30 – Awake
11.00 – E (bed 11.15)
11.45 – S
12.15 – Awake (left in bed - calm)
12.40 - S
1.10 – Awake
1.45 – E (2.30 Bed)
2.55 – S
4.15 - Awake (crying)
5.30 - Bed (This A time was so much more than I would have left him after short naps, but I was at doctors so it was Grandma’s decision.  He did actually fall asleep ok though.  Maybe I really do need to increase my A time of 1h15 after a good nap, 1 hr-ish after a bad nap.)
5.45 - Sleep
6.45 - Woke up for BT (calm) - E, Bath, E
Bed at 7.45, Sleep 8.20 Calm

...can't believe he was calm - just seems such an OT day.



 




 

[willowsmummy]

It might be worth a try!! I used to do mine between 10.30/11 if that helps!!

 Looking at you EASY today. It looks as though he had a good 1hr 45 nap from 8.45-10.30!! Then your next wind down seems to be quite long, in bed at 11.15 (after a 45 min A time??) and asleep at 11.45. Does he take this time to get to sleep? iwould attemPt a 1hr awake time atleas,t then a 5-10 min quite time wherever he sleeps for naps and then put into the crib for pat/shh? What do you think?

Also his next nap wasnt a great one. Sleep at 11.45, awake at 12.15 asleep again at 12.40 then awake at 1.10. (sorry forcopying it i cant use the quote function on my phone!!) i would have cut his next A time by 15-20 mins.

Its so difficult, im also having troubles with my LO A times at the moment

Xx

[willowsmummy]

also i always offer both breasts she usually just takes one though xx

[lynners]

Sorry I didn't get back to you willowsmummy.  Busy weekend.  Thanks for your response.

We finally got my LO on to the bottle on the weekend  so my husband can now do the DF a bit later.  He did it at 10.30 as suggested and I went to bed earlier (annoyingly I think I'm like on OT child and couldn't actually sleep!!  Hope that will improve)  Have also started offering both breasts for more tanking up during the day time.

Thanks for your comments re. A time although the nap that you thought was 1h 45m was actually only 1h 10m with numerous little wake ups as we were out in the buggy.  That's why I then only had a 45 minute A time..but yes resulted in a crap nap.  Yes you're right his A time after the 'Sleep at 11.45, awake at 12.15 asleep again at 12.40 then awake at 1.10' should have been reduced.

Thanks again.  Speak soon

[*Kara*]

Great news about the bottle!

As for the OT baby bit for yourself - I still have trouble with EWing myself

[lynners]

I hear you lady 

Has anyone got any advice re. feeds around 45 minute naps?  I seem to be getting more and more of them so gaps between naps is more like two hours rather than three. We're aiming for a 3 hour EASY but I'm finding I'm feeding him every 2 hours because I'm nervous to put him down for a nap without food in his tummy.  Feel like there's no chance he'll get past 45 mins with an empty tummy.  To be fair though LO  very rarely cries out in hunger (and I know he doesn't need feeding every 2 hours!!) so maybe I should risk putting him down without a feed (although could he handle 4 hours-ish without a feed?)

[lynners]

Hoorah - a better day here - finally.  Could really do with some opinions re A times please as my LO seems to be able to achieve a longer A time than average.

With various EW's and the school runs I can see it will be a while until we have a routine but if I can wrk out A times to aim for, both after a  good nap or after a bad nap, it would really help.

Judging by today's EASY I think I should be perhaps be aiming to put LO to bed after 1h 20m (for a 1h 30m A time).  I put him to bed at 1h 10m and only got a 40minute nap (which he woke up happy from.  UT??)   Would really appreciate a second opinion.

After a 40 minute nap I put him down at 1h (achieving an A time of 1h15m) and got a good two hour nap so think I should stick to about this after bad naps.

I wish I didn't have to be so 'by the clock' but I'm finding his sleepy cues very hard to read.  For example he's been yawning 30-40 mins after waking up from a good nap and he's definitely not ready to go down then.

Today's EASY was -

DF - 11.00
E – 2.30
E – 5.55 (awake for day)
S - 7.15 (buggy 6.55)
Awake – 8.55 (slept until back from school!)
E - 9.05
S – 10.20 (bed 10.05)
Awake – 11.00 (Trying to get to sleep for ˝ hour then got distressed so got up)
S – 12.15  (Bed-12.00)
Awake – 14.25 (Normally wouldn’t let sleep more than 2 hours but stretched it to fit A time around school run.)
S - 15.50 (Bed – 15.45)
Awake and E – 16.30
S-18.00 (Bed- 17.25)
E – 18.30 (I woke him up after CN)
S – 19.45

[*Kara*]

hmmm... well, you could try it but I would be prepared with a bottle for when he does wake up

Just saw your EASY!  Looks pretty good to me considering you have school runs and a wee one!  That 40 min nap was UT for sure