7 weeks and dream feed problems effecting night time

[Ernest's mum]

Hello fellow BWs!  I now have baby number 2 and am 7 weeks in.  All was going well until the 6 week growth spurt which we got through fine, but now my LO is taking less and less at her dream feed and her night waking is getting more and more eratic.  Before the growth spurt she was waking at about 2.30-3am and 5-6am but now it's getting earlier  - last night was 1.30am, 3am, 4.30am, 5.30am, 6.30am...

She is taking less and less at her DF - now only 2oz max (expressing BM).  And I am sure this is why she wont sleep longer at night.
The other issue is that she is quite a sleepy  feeder - so at night it's really hard to keep her awake to feed more than 5 mins... so I also need suggestions on how to get her to feed better at night so she doesn't keep waking after an hour... this I think also effects her DF - as she normally wakes when I am feeding her and then she drops off and that's it!


I am also trying to make sure she takes as much as possible at her day feeds  (she is breast fed except DF of expressed BM)- see below.

Her typical EASY is like this:

E 6.45am (she normally only takes about 5-7 mins at a time so I then give her a break and offer her more about 5 mins later - this goes on for about 30-40 min - is it ok to do this?? - and at what point do I stop - is about 40 mins right?)
A
S 8am - 9.30
Y

E 9.30 ish (try and stretch her to 3 hours sometimes 2.5 hrs) (she normally only takes about 7 mins at a time so I then give her a break and offer her more about 5 mins later - this goes on for about 30-40 mins)
A
S 10.45 - 12.00 (ish - may wake after about an hour - used to me longer)

E 12.30 (she normally only takes about 7 mins at a time so I then give her a break and offer her more about 5 mins later - this goes on for about 30-40 mins)
A
S 1.45-3pm (may wake early - try and get her back to sleep or calm until feed time)
Y

E 3.30 (ish - may be a little earlier)
A
S 4.45 - 5.30 ish
Y

E 5.30 or 6pm depending on when she has her final nap
A Bath time at 6 / 6.15pm

E 6.30 - 6.45

S - 6.50pm bed time

Dream feed 10.30pm  - expressed BM in a bottle. (very hard to DF - normally have to wake her slightly as she wont suck, or she wakes when I try and get it in her mouth.... (before her growth spurt she used to take 3-4oz)  now she only takes 2oz and it's getting less each night!!

I have read on here and in the book about reducing the 5pm feed but feel so nervous to do this - is this the best option though?

Sorry a few questions here folks but any help and ideas much appreciated!

Thanks all!!

[Ernest's mum]

Hello all.no replies makes me think everyone is stumpt.
Last night I tried the dream feed earlier at 10pm to see if that might work but no. She only took 1oz. She then woke  at 1, 3, 5 and 6.15. Managed to sshh her from 6.15 to 6.50am.
2 oz from a bottle at 1am
About 7 mins at 3 even after changing nappy try and wake her more and feed her more
5 mins at 5 am

Didn't take much at 6.50...

Shall I try and drop a night feed maybe? She doesnt like the dummy though...

Any thoughts??? Thank you

[ZacsMumme]

Bumping for you

Sorry no one has replied yet hun.
I never managed a DF with my refluxer Lo so no help sorry but ill get some eyes on this for you.

You may find your post is moved over to one of the feeding board too - will let the EASY and BF mods work that one out though

[Ernest's mum]

thank you! i have to say i am a little stumped. just cant work out why it's gone so wrong and she seems to be feeding enough in the day and getting the right amount of naps... my only thinking is this multiple short feeds - so a few mins then stops then another few mins.  Not sure if this has something to do with it...?  Not sure how to get her to feed just one long stint at a time though...

Anyway - thank you for any advice from anyone who might have an idea!

Tonight I am going to try the DF at 11pm and see how that goes...

[Ernest's mum]

In case anyone clues I thought I would updaute you.. fed are 11 and she took a but more. Last night  near to 3. Still waking more than shed but willjust keep at it... 1am 4am 5am 6 am!! Or night before 1, 3, 5, 6... will just keep feeding her up and it stops unless anyone has anygood advice?? Thank u!!

[Erin M]

Hi hun, I'm so sorry to have not replied, I know I was going to the other day. 

Anyway, a few thoughts:
At 7 weeks, she might actually be getting enough in the 7 minutes that she first feeds.  Is it both sides, or one side that you feed in those 7 minutes?  If it's 1, I might try feeding her, getting a good burp out of her, and then feeding on the other side.  If she only takes a short time, just call the feed done with and move on from there.  Of course, if she doesn't last very long, I'd continue with what you're doing, but she might just be happily comfort sucking.  Are you getting a good suck-suck-swallow pattern throughout the whole feed or just through the first part of it?  You want to stop when the sucking pattern changes, someone on here described it as you can kind of feel a fluttering sensation, and that's when they've moved to just comfort sucking.

It's also not going to be the end of the world if you wake her up before the dream feed.  Have you tried changing her diaper?  Unwrapping her if she's swaddled?  I used to unwrap my LO before I started the feed, change the diaper mid-feed and then re-swaddle -- the unswaddling and the diaper change used to keep them up enough to finish the feed. 

What are you doing at those wakings?  Feeding?  Trying to settle? 

[Ernest's mum]

Hi Erin - sorry not to reply  - I told myself to stop looking on the web all the time and try and tackle the problem myself!  Anyway - things have moved on and she is now 11 weeks - bonkers hey!   We now feed twice a night - 2 and 5 (ish).  She takes between 3-4 oz on her dream feed - not a lot but it's slowly increasing and I have managed to stop her waking so much at night - just kept shhh-ing her. 

Funnily enough when I BF her a dream feed instead of the bottle (the odd occasion if we have had friends over so haven't pumped) then she goes much longer at night - to say 4am.  DO you think that's a coincidence?  I am reluctant to BF her DF as I want her to get used to a bottle... but I am considering changing things around.

We are getting near to that 3 month mark and am very keen to work towards dropping a feed!

Thanks so much
Georgie

[Erin M]

I told myself to stop looking on the web all the time and try and tackle the problem myself! 

That's some very wise advice you gave yourself. 

Are you always feeding EBM at the DF?  It could make a difference -- breast milk varies depending on the time of the day -- the fat content changes over the course of the day -- and it could be the milk she's getting at night from you is fattier than the milk that she's getting in the bottle.  She could also be taking a bigger feed from you than from the bottle. 

You could try giving a bottle at a different point during the day -- you're right about not wanting her to lose the ability to take the bottle -- that's something that definitely gets lost if you don't give them frequently. 

I'm glad you're getting longer stretches at night.  It takes a long time for many babies to make it a decent stretch at night -- you might try the df from the breast for a few nights in a row to see if you get a consistently longer stretch and then maybe if she's used to taking more in at that point, try the bottle again?  Not sure if that would work, but it might be worth a try. 

[Fiver]

Something else to consider if you're offering EBM in a bottle at the DF is when that milk has been expressed.  Because human milk is a living substance, it is constituted differently in the morning than in the evening.  As well as being more fatty towards the end of the day, it also contains some elements that are meant to promote sleep, whereas morning milk tends to be more copious and contains elements that are supposed to help wake LO up for the day.

All that to say that if you're offering EBM that's been expressed in the morning in a DF bottle, LO isn't getting the advantages of the sleepy bits that she may be getting directly from the breast.

[Erin M]

Heehee, great minds think alike Amanda. 

[Ernest's mum]

Thanks ladies. I express in the evening so that should be ok. I think she just needs to learn to take more from the bottle I guess. Anyway will keep at it. About to post on the night waking page as she is now starting not to feed well at aol at 7 or 7.30 as  the 5 am waking putting her off her feed. I feel pu pd coming... eeek..thanks again for your help.

[Marisglady]

Try stopping the Dream Feeds!
I had a really big problem with my baby being really agitated at night.
He would moan and cry in his sleep, kick the mattress, rise his legs, move his arms and head relentlessly.
I was waking up to calm him down about 10 times every night, plus two times to feed him when he actually woke up.
I gave him his DF at 10:30 since he was about 2,5 mo. ( not before ).
Before that he used to go from about 7:00 to 2:00 in the morning, and then 6 or 7:00 am,
When I started the DFs, he was going from 10:30 to 4:00 and then waking up at 8:00.I thought it was better and would give him energy to eventually sleep the whole night, I I didn't believe he could ever go from 7:00 pm till 8:00 am.
It was good at the start, but slowly he started to get really agitated and got to a really bad point in which I was desperate, and both of us were having no sleep at all, really cranky during the day.
I found out what was wrong!
I stopped the dream feeds and he was better in two days!
I guess the DF does not work for every baby.
He had reflux ( a little bit) and was treated for it, so t I thought that was the problem, but then he started to get better during the day and feeds, but would still get agitated during the nights.
I thought it could be the DF that was waking him up to a certain degree ( he usually didn't completely woke up) and messing with his sleep cycle, making him a light sleeper.
It worked!
The first night I skipped the DF we woke up to calm him down about three times ( instead of 10) , and the second night we didn't at all!!!
He now sleeps from 7:00 to about 2-3:00am, and then wakes up at 7:00am for his day.
We are happy and rested !
Maybe give it a try.

[Fiver]

I guess the DF does not work for every baby.

Agreed. I could never get it to work, so didn't continue to press on with it.

[ZacsMumme]

I guess the DF does not work for every baby.

Agreed. I could never get it to work, so didn't continue to press on with it.

never worked for either of my boys