15 mo, never sttn *update-she did it!!*

[C&B&E]

Up at 4.30am and screamed and screamed for 45 minutes so I ended up just taking her downstairs (which we never do) as she was going to wake Ben again  . I kept it dark and she just snuggled up with me.  Going to try and put her down at 8ish  . We've got a school open day from 11-12.30 so how long shall I give her this morning - 30 mins?

I do leave her when ican for naps but tbh she rarely resettled and ends up just screaming  .

[*Becky*]

Hugs hun - M can do 3/5 hours after a 30 min nap easily but if you cannot put her down until 1pm ish then I may be tempted to give her a bit longer i.e. 45??

[Smurfette]

if I put her down at 12 and she sleeps half an hour then that gives a 3.30pm bedtime?

Well, no, that would be too early. But if that happens I would for sure leave her there for at least 30 mins (if not more) and then try to have her asleep by 5pm.

so how long shall I give her this morning - 30 mins?

Sorry. I'm not sure what this means.

I do leave her when ican for naps but tbh she rarely resettled and ends up just screaming 

Ok, keep doing it every single time so that it's consistent. It will take time to fix this, but half the battle is staying consistent with whatever you do.

[C&B&E]

Just writing this down for my memory more than anything!

Today
A - 4.30am...nice
S - 9.05-9.50am (was aiming for 8.15 but it took almost an hour to settle her - not helped by the fact she did a poo  )
S - 1.20-2.45 - woke herself
Bedtime - asleep at 6.20pm I think, so a long day

so how long shall I give her this morning - 30 mins?

Sorry. I'm not sure what this means.

I meant how long should her first nap be - if I let her take a full nap she refuses a second one or it takes so long to get her down that bedtime it ridiculously late. 

[katie80]

(((Hugs))), Claire, we're in a bit of a similar situation with EWs and it is just the worst when C also wakes early because G is up making noise.   If it were me, I'd let her have 30min at 8:30 and then the main nap can be 3-3.5hr later.

[Truly Blessed]

Hey Hun, I agree with Katie, except I might even go with a slightly shorter first A time if she has had a short night and is struggling, otherwise it could be very hard to wake her after 30 mins and then she could be extremely grumpy afterwards 

Know what I mean Ladies 

(Hugs) all round 

x.

[Smurfette]

I meant how long should her first nap be - if I let her take a full nap she refuses a second one or it takes so long to get her down that bedtime it ridiculously late. 
                     
Oh, ok. I personally wouldn't be capping anything right now. She's OT and needs sleep. If she's fighting a PM nap it's because her body clock needs resetting and the OT is contributing to it, not because she's well rested. Just my opinion though.                  
                  
                     
                     
                     
                        

[Truly Blessed]

I meant how long should her first nap be - if I let her take a full nap she refuses a second one or it takes so long to get her down that bedtime it ridiculously late. 
                     
Oh, ok. I personally wouldn't be capping anything right now. She's OT and needs sleep. If she's fighting a PM nap it's because her body clock needs resetting and the OT is contributing to it, not because she's well rested. Just my opinion though.     

     

Smurfette Hiya  You see this is where I'm struggling with lots of LO's on TS in the same kind of predicament at the moment TBH. I always used to advise sleep begets sleep and in my heart I do still think this is first and foremost the thing to consider, but I do think it often needs to be in the short term ie: 2 to 3 days max, otherwise LO isn't able to reset their clock and often they end up in an OT/UT loop without capping. I must admit though when Sam was Evelyn's age it was often the quickest way to improve nights, so I definitely wouldn't rule it out.

The other sticking point is if the morning nap is early and uncapped and the pm nap is refused then you need to be able to achieve SEBT or it backfires 

Interesting debate 

x.   
                 
                     
                   

[C&B&E]

The other sticking point is if the morning nap is early and uncapped and the pm nap is refused then you need to be able to achieve SEBT or it backfires 
               

Yep, I can see both sides of the debate too!  But I think that actually if I am going to go back to two naps then I need to cap the first one for the time being rather than having the lottery of whether she will refuse a pm nap giving me a stressful SEBT.  I have another lo to think about and it's already going to impact him that I am settling E for two naps again  .  Also Ev is on medication that needs to be given on an empy tummy and 30 mins before a meal.  That means that it's hard to give an unplanned SEBT  . 

I'll see what tomorrow brings and see how we go 

[*Becky*]

But I think that actually if I am going to go back to two naps then I need to cap the first one for the time being rather than having the lottery of whether she will refuse a pm nap giving me a stressful SEBT.

IMO I would def cap the first. She is OT yes but you do not want to risk nap refusal for the second nap and like you said with having Ben you don't want to be spending the entire day thinking abut sleep!! (like me atm!) I am under no illusions that this week H's behaviour has taken a slide again and M has been needing much more from me at sleep times.
Hope you got a good night x

[C&B&E]

Well I decided to just give her an uncapped nap this morning (figured we've got nothing to lose and it's easier to try things out at the weekend)...she fell asleep at 9ish and it still sleeping  ! (just woke after 2hr25 mins). This is the child who hasn't had a decent nap for weeks!  So who knows what will happen for the rest of the day but even if she doesn't take another nap then she will be better than the days when she only has one 30 minute nap  . 

I am under no illusions that this week H's behaviour has taken a slide again and M has been needing much more from me at sleep times.

yep, it's horrible when it effects the other one isn't it - it's actually the thing I find the hardest about the whole thing 
x

[Truly Blessed]

Good call then Honey. Hope she's a happier little bunny  I'd still keep the afternoon short and not longer than 6 hours A time or you could undo all the good the nap did, but I'm a big believer in EBT  and SEBT! x.

[Smurfette]

Hi there

If you cap a nap, then you need to ask yourself-for what reason and for how long. I understand that capping is needed sometimes when you get to the 2-1, but I wouldn't cap more than 45 minutes. A LO isn't going to survive very long on 30 minutes, especially if they are NWing, EWing and short napping.
(on a side note and as a general 'rule', I wouldn't let the morning nap go past 11 am, but that's not really going to apply to this age group ).

Why cap the morning? Is it to ensure a Pm nap? If so, then I would first try moving the morning nap earlier for 4-5 days (yup, I know this is counter intuative, but sometimes going to 8:30 instead of 9 works for some reason), then I would try capping the morning nap at an hour, 45 minutes at the most for a week, then I would try moving the pm nap to 1:30 and then if your LO is still refusing a nap for 2 weeks straight, then I would move to 1 nap.

Claire if your LO is taking a 2 good naps, I would still keep bedtime to about 4 hours after they wake up. Any longer and they're going to get more OT, especially if they haven't been sleeping that well to begin with.

[*Becky*]

great nap claire
Fingers crossed for you xx

[katie80]

great nap claire
Fingers crossed for you xx

Here too!