8.5 MO naps going to pot

[Straffles]

My 8.5 MO's pm naps have been a problem for over a month. His ATs are so high that when he does settle for a pm nap, we cap it.

But now we are losing his AM naps.

I stretched his am AT to 3HR 35 6 days ago. He seemed okay but by the 4th day he took a 1.5hour nap which for him is usually indicative of needing a little more AT (experience says after a 1.5 exactly, he goes to 1 hour and/or then total nap resistance).

So I stretched his AM AT again yesterday morning, aiming for 3HR 45, but he didn't like it so was down in bed at 3HR 42! He did a 1hr 10 min nap. I thought it could be possible this was OT?

I went by the same AT this morning but he was crying from 3HR 15. He managed to calm himself but then was crying for the whole WD. I put him down in the end at 3HR 36 AT! He wasn't happy but took just 4 mins to self settle to sleep. But he woke after an hour again!

My understanding was that 1hour naps indicate UT. But I cannot understand, given the situation, that he can possibly be UT. Given that his pm naps are 50/50 at the moment, I am dealing with a very OT baby who is fussy, crying at stuff etc. He is usually so happy. He tends NOT to make up lost sleep overnight and will do a total of 11-12 hours at night (including 1 or 2 NWs) EBT or no EBT.

Please please help me understand what is happening to our naps. I would say he is OT because he was crying well before WD. His tired signs are inconsistent and unreadable by me. He can yawn after 2HR AT or not at all, for example. I also medicated for possible teething but don't want to have to carry on with this!

I do have another thread going, but would like to get some more eyes on this one if at all possible rather than relying on poor Bec for everything!

[mycatmonet]

hi straffles! Not sure if this would help at all, but when DD was 9 months we improved our naps (and stopped DD refusing naps) by shortening the A times and making them more consistent. I had thought DD could cope with a longer A, but i cut it to 3h or 3h10min or so, and we had a good few weeks of excellent naps (with one nap of 2h or more each day, plus a 1h+ nap which was unheard of and like a miracle!) then teething struck and DD got older and the easy changed again...  But we had a good 3 weeks of bliss there, by shortening our As! 

It's SO hard to work out timing with As and what naps they give. And tired signs or lack thereof, or fake tired signs..... Don't feel bad. You're not the only one going through this!

[*happy*]

jsut wanted to add some hugs....my DD is confusing me bigtime here too...you know there's a wonder week around now,do you?that's accountign for some of our fussiness here but still hard to know what to do to help matters....x

[Papaya]

Those short naps could be discomfort hun - what teething meds do you give? I find only ibuprofen makes any difference when teeth are really bad. That would fit with the general irritability as well.

Or, as Happy says, a developmental leap: http://www.thewonderweeks.com/index.php/about-the-wonder-weeks/your-babys-10-leaps/mental-leap-6

[scruffymax]

Straffles, I really think you should try shorter A times as PP suggested.  I know our bubs are doing different things activity wise but DD's naps really improved when I actually shortened A times so they're usually around 3 hours.  It sounds like things aren't great at the moment, so it couldn't hurt to try it for a couple of days could it?

[mycatmonet]

scruffymax, i am pleased to hear that shorter A times worked for you! Makes me feel less like someone suggesting something totally crazy!!!
I really thought my LO was fine with the longer A times, but when i shortened them to 3h it really improved naps : )

[scruffymax]

scruffymax, i am pleased to hear that shorter A times worked for you! Makes me feel less like someone suggesting something totally crazy!!!I really thought my LO was fine with the longer A times, but when i shortened them to 3h it really improved naps : )

Yeah, I was doing what you're doing Straffles and increasing A times to try to get longer naps, but the naps have definitely improved a lot and remained fairly consistent over the last month or so since I've stuck to around 3 hrs.  Of course we have off days, and the afternoon nap is still inconsistent (sometimes 1, sometimes 2 sleep cycles, and never more than 30 mins if anywhere other than the cot) but it's been really nice to stick with the same times for a while rather than constantly increasing the A times.  Chatting to other mums with bubs around the same age, it seems most are doing a long morning nap and short pm nap, and mostly up around 3 hours.

[mycatmonet]

when we shortened As to 3hrs (pd at 3h even if no visible tired signs) we'd generally get a 2-2.5h nap, either am or pm and a shorter 1-1.5h nap for the other nap.... Before the shorter A DD was refusing the pm nap, and 2h naps really didn't ever exist for DD umm pretty much ever.

[Straffles]

Thank you so much for your wonderful help and suggestions.

I'm kind of thinking it could be discomfort at this stage - he is definitely teething (LHS upper incisor is cutting). So it is possible these 1HRish naps are due to teething. The fussiness too

I would LOVE to reduce his ATs to give us a chance to have two decent naps in a day. What were your naps like prior to doing this?

When we were last close to 3HRS AT, the AM nap was shortening to 1HR and then being totally refused. Is this your experience? That's why I've been doing this constant stretching! What happens if you shorten, but then get a UT nap or nap refusal - what do you do for the rest of the day etc.?

X

[Straffles]

I also wanted to say that I have given Benji nurofen tonight. I feed DREADFUL about this. He was crying at BT and had been pulling his ear, but it is such a strong medication to give. I know he is teething, but....It feels like I have only given it in hope that I will sleep. It feels wrong to give this stuff to someone who can't make the decision for himself.

ANyway, now I am worrying that if he wakes at night, and like last night won't go back to sleep, I won't be able to give panadol as well.

What a rollercoaster ride!

[mycatmonet]

hugs! teeth are a pain. We got bottom 2 at 7mths, and took 3 long mths of 'they're so close' to get the top ones, accompanied by (coincidental?) nappy rash. And then number 5 just popped through... I don't give neurofen much either but sometimes it's a last resort! Hope your lo gets some rest tonight.

[Straffles]

Hi everyone. We've had  few good days since Benji's top left incisor has cut through, yay!

We have stuck to our same, long ATs. And I've had to cap the pm nap. But all has been good with, as usual, 1-2 NWs.

However, the last two days, Benji has pulled a 30 then a 20 minute pm nap, waking very upset indeed. Presumably this is OS/OT, right? Just need to check this, because if he does it again tomorrow, I'd like to be confident in shortening that pm AT.

Both days he took the 20/30 minute nap, he'd taken the best am nap in ages (1hr 53 and 2 hours!). So I want to be sure that means OT before I reduce ATs, you know?!

He's been managing 2HRS 30 AT to BT but this evening that's meant going to bed at 6.30pm. He doesn't usually make up time if he has an EBT so I'm so scared he will wake before 6am. I guess I will just feed him and put him down and come back in at 6 if he does? What do others do?

Thanks again guys

[Amanda5555]

Hi again listening in again for ideas. My LO is doing similar and its also driving me crazy. We are having long am naps and screwy pm naps. I do believe its due to teething for sure or discomfort of some kind. Teeth seem to cause my LO an unusual lot of pain. He doesn't even like to put anything in his mouth and when he does he cries every time. For pm nap lately I have been putting him down at 3hr AT. Sometimes he will roll around and play for a bit then start crying (not constantly) and then fall asleep, sometimes he will just roll over and go to sleep. When he is unsettled like that we usually have shorter naps like 1hr. When he's not so restless we tend to get better naps. Overall he is just grumpy most of the time. Because he's not constantly crying and its more like whining I leave him to it and he works it out. I just really think he's having a hard time settling and it seems to be that in the afternoon his teeth really start bothering him most. Its like clockwork every afternoon lately. I'm not sure why so that's usually when I give him the meds. Usually once a day. I still can't see any new teeth or obvious bulges but he still keeps trying to bite us and is drooling like mad. Just had his ears checked and they're fine. So not sure why my LO teeth and gums hurt so much more or whether he's just really sensitive overall.

I worry too about giving pain meds too much but on the other hand what I give him is also anti-inflammatory which is helping with B's painful swollen gums and in some ways may actually help with teething by reducing the swelling.

((((HUGS))))) Its going to be a bumpy ride I think!!!!!

[scruffymax]

I don't think you should feel worried at all about giving nurofen or panadol.  If I'm in pain, I take painkillers, therefore I don't expect my baby should suffer unneccessarily.  As long as you're not exceeding the recommended daily dose it's fine.  No need to feel mummy guilt on this one.

Straffles, maybe if Benji has had great morning sleeps he doesn't need such a big afternoon sleep?  I know my DD takes the odd long (2hr) morning sleep and never does a long afternoon sleep after it.

I know Benji's not crawling, but just for interest, I have noticed that if DD spends the whole A time crawling around she gets quite cranky, but if I make sure a good chunk of the time is in the pram or somewhere more "rested" she's a lot happier - I think she just exhausts herself if she's moving around too much.

[Straffles]

Thanks for your support everyone. You're right about the panadol/nurofen situation. I also spoke to local pharmacist

The last two days Benji has pulled 1hr 15//20 minute am naps on a 3HR 45 AT! He's not even 9 months old. The 5 days before that he seemed OT at nap time and I cdn't even make him last the full AT.

So I am thinking discomfort but he's waking happy.

I'm not sure there's any more time in the day to stretch his am AT much more - it just seems SO much AT. What do you think? Do I just wait until he refuses a nap or does a 45min am one or worse??

We are already down to 30 min capped nap in the arvo.

Thanks all. Oh yes, and he's nowhere near crawling so I'm doing everything I can to exhaust him during the day but then just exhausting myself! Typing this in the car while DP puts himk down for his pm nap cos it's just too much for me atm!!