Food just before bed

[creations]

I've always had DS's last solids meal 1.5hrs before BT to give him chance to digest and avoid tummy pain etc.  I worked this out when he first started solids at 6 months, any later and he'd get tummy pain and early NWs from indigestion or wind.
He is always offered more than he eats at meal times to ensure he is properly full.

BT routine is always the same, very regular but sometimes now he tells me he is hungry half an hour before BT (straight after his TV programme when we would be going upstairs for teeth, bath, bed).  My basic approach is if he's hungry let him eat but I offer him something reasonably dull like a bread-stick, a cracker or anything suitable left over from dinner and I say something like, 'Anyone who is really hungry will eat this'.  I keep him in the kitchen to eat and he is not allowed to run around or go back to the living room or get out any of his kitchen toys etc. It is clearly an eating due to hunger time, not an extended play time.  99% of the times he has said he is hungry he has not questioned at all the food offered, just eats it until he is full then toddles off upstairs to bed.
So - I don't think it is a delay tactic it really is hunger. BT remains the same, bath is slightly shorter to keep time.

I have a couple of questions
1. What food group should I focus on at dinner time to make sure he is getting full enough to see him through without this pre-bed snack?  Do I need to increase protein or fats or carbs???

2. If I give the pre-bed snack it is only 30 mins before sleep.  He seems to be getting wind and waking with painful cries/screaming within a couple of hours of BT.  What pre-bed snack would be the best to offer or do I need to avoid this feed time altogether because it is just so close to BT? (btw I never ever give fruit so close to BT and very very rarely give veg)

Any advice?

[Canwi]

Curious why not fruit (sheer curiosity too ) and vege before bed?
Hopefully I can come up with some brilliant suggestions for you, or someone else beats me to it!

[CCCmom27]

Curious why not fruit (sheer curiosity too  ) and vege before bed?

I'm curious to?!?!  Does he have milk at BT?  DS1 is allowed a yogurt before we brush his teeth as long as he ate/attempted dinner...

[creations]

Curious why not fruit

Just in terms of fruit can be acidic and gassy.  He gets plenty of fruit (a lot!) during the day and most days will take a large portion of veg too.  I tend to think that fruit can give indigestion, flare reflux, or give gas if eaten late so I avoid giving him any immediately before his bath but he gets a portion after his dinner which is supposed to be his last meal of the day (and usually is).

Does he have milk at BT?

No. He hasn't had milk at BT for many months (about 10 months now I think).  He has a sippy of milk with his solids dinner (usually take about 1 oz only but can have as much as he wants I don't limit).  Then after teeth and bath, just before getting into bed he is offered a sippy water just in case he is thirsty.  He usually rejects it but sometimes has a sip.  He still gets a large milk drink each day though, but after morning WU, about 5 or 6 oz.

DS1 is allowed a yogurt before we brush his teeth as long as he ate/attempted dinner...

I can't give him yogurt as it flares his reflux and makes him sick (reflux is otherwise controlled, he has meds and a thickener in milk).  I'm not against or frustrated by him wanting a snack pre-bath and BT it's just that it seems to be giving him tummy pains and wind so he isn't sleeping well in the evening and sounds like he is in such discomfort.  It's only recently and occasionally he is asking for more food so I know he generally gets enough calories in the day for his needs.
I'd really like to know how to stuff him up at his last solids meal so he has enough time to digest his food before bed though.

[aisling]

We never do fruit as a family even past 12pm.  Too much fermentation IYKWIM?     My grandma used to say if you eat fruit before bed it will give you nightmares lol!

We always did our milk as dessert after dinner and then his bedtime snack I usually gave was protein based.  Some ideas we did and do: hard boiled eggs, cheese, hummus, cottage cheese, ham pieces for example.  If he was/is extra hungry we usually gave him porridge before bed.   

FWIW, I was found the best nights he slept were after he had hard boiled eggs lol! 

[creations]

That's interesting that you gave a protein based BT snack because DS isn't great at eating protein every day.
He is a good eater but it would sound fussy if I described his protein intake.  I am quite inventive and generally try to give something that is a sure thing protein wise at least every other day, the days between are hit and miss.  This could be why he sometimes gets hungry.

[aisling]

Yes I find with myself that even though carbs stuff me quickly when I'm hungry, they don't fuel me for as long.  I have a nice omelette or 2 poached eggs in the morn, I don't find myself starving at lunch like I would with toast or cereal.  So I always thought before his bed to give him something that doesn't just lay there like a big stodge and converting quickly to energy in the night.  I gave him the protein for slow release kwim?

[*Ali*]

I would try to give protein  and fats at dinner as they will keep him fuller longer.
We tend to do a supper of cereals such as porridge or weetabix just before bath.

Would he eat something like jam on wholemeal toast for dessert in addition to the fruit? Just thinking mine will eat that even if they say they are full from dinner and it is filling. That or toast with Philadelphia cheese and a tiny bit of chocolate spread. I often pull these out if they haven't eaten as much as I'd like at dinner as I feel it is more filling than fruit and yogurt they normally have.

Funny Aisling that your DG said fruit will give nightmares as my family says cheese will do the same

[creations]

You see this is where he starts to sound fussy although I don't think of him as fussy...

Lunch (it was around 3pm but now around 3.30 - 4pm) is his biggest meal of the day.  He eats tons so that's when I do 'proper cooking'.  His dinner (1.5hr before BT) is a smaller meal because he has never had a big appetite for dinner.  Sometimes his dinner is only wholemeal bread and jam, or bread with cream cheese or home made pate.  Cubes of cheese with crackers.  Any left over veg from lunch.  I sometimes make a fish finger or give him a home made bean burger at dinner, but then I worried that the beans could give him gas!  He eats so little at dinner.  There isn't an option to give him like you suggested Ali, the bread and jam etc as that's all he really has already.

He won't eat porridge, weetabix or any other cereal (see he does sound fussy!).  The only cereal he will have is baby muesli which I make thick into balls for breakfast, or oaty chews which he will eat as snacks.  I could give offer oaty chews pre-BT if he was hungry though.  But they are baked with fruit in them, home made, I don't know if they would be palatable without the fruit.

What fats are good?  It could well be he doesn't have enough.
Maybe I should do a regular fish finger for dinner time.  I think he would eat a whole one.

[*Ali*]

What about a boiled or fried egg with his toast at dinner? Bacon even. Salmon or mackerel, either fresh or as pate would be nice.

I think any fat that isn't hydrogenated vegetable oil is ok at that age. Olive oil or fat from meat or dairy is fine. Avocado is good but fruit so maybe not. Nuts? Houmous? Yogurt? Cheese on toast? 

[creations]

What about a boiled or fried egg with his toast at dinner?

Now, he won't eat any sort of egg except eggy bread/french toast.  So I could do that, good idea.  I hadn't thought of that because for a while now he's been having it for breakfast when he went through a phase of being bored with his muesli balls.  Now that he's back on muesli I can give do eggy bread for dinner.  Thanks!

He won't have bacon.  Tonight I offered a sausage which is usually a hit if offered at the earlier lunch meal, but he wouldn't touch it.
Salmon pate I make, but that's a good reminder to make some more and offer it for that last meal.  Also sometimes has peanut butter on his bread/toast/muffin etc.

Yes, I think I can do this, focus on having more protein in the dinner even though it is such a small meal.

Thank you!

[Lemonthyme]

What about bringing lunch earlier to see if he has more appetite for tea?  Our routine which was about the same at that age is breakfast at 7, lunch at about 11:30ish, tea around 4:30pm.

As for foods, higher fat and protein foods and complex carbs all take longer to digest.

[creations]

Thanks for your thoughts LT.
Just now it feels like he isn't eating much at all but he has a cold and I think teeth are moving too so it's no surprise.  Funny that with the little amount of food he is taking just now he hasn't been asking for food straight before BT.  Yesterday he had fruit but only 1/4 slice toast, 1 bread stick, a bite of garlic flat bread, 3 cooked cherry toms, half a carrot and about half a sprat that was it the whole day.  You'd think he would still be hungry but wasn't.

[Lemonthyme]

I think toddlers do a feast and famine thing.  Some days my son eats more than me, some days he lives on air, well, not quite, he's a bit of a greedy guts but it's certainly a shock when you're used to him having such big portions.  Breakfast is always huge in our house, he will have a child size (like an 8 year old size in my head) portion of cereal and two slices of toast at least and on nursery days he regularly then has a second breakfast!  but then there are kids in his room at nursery who eat way less.  I once heard one set of parents being told "she had half of the chicken curry at lunchtime but it was a big portion" then they come to me and say "he had two portions of chicken curry...".  It's so strange though, my son doesn't look overweight and the other kids don't look skinny.  He does poo a lot though ha ha ha!

Anyway, my point was all kids are different and when they're off colour it all goes out of the window.  The first we realised my son had chicken pox two weeks ago was when he was saying "finished" after two mouthfuls of food.