NEW with E.A.S.Y. and 3 months old baby

[Lollipop86]

Hello!
I'm new on this forum and E.A.S.Y. Since I'm from Slovenia I apologise for my bad English.
I have 3 months old first baby and I have troubles with her sleeping. I know It's my fault for that because I haven't had any routine till now. And she slept little ever since birth. Now we have this situation:
She sleeps OK in the night (wakes up for breastfeeding every 2-3-4 hours) BUT despite bathing at about 7 pm every night she falls asleep at 10.30 or 11.30 pm! Then she sleeps till 9-10 am.
Then she sleeps little during the day - 1/2-1 hour. Maybe sometimes 2. She has 2-3 naps during the day. I have to carry her in a sling or in my arms to get her to sleep. It helps if I put wacuum cleaner sound on the radio. If she can't fall asleep in the stroller than she cries so we can't even go for a decent walk. Now I realised that we were overstimulating her during the day and that's why she had trouble falling asleep and crying a lot. She eats every 2-3 hours. If she wakes up after 2 hours since last meal and she is cranky then I feed her.
Today I tried to have her awake just 1,5 hours and it worked better. But now in the evening when I tried wind down technique it obviously didn't work. Pat/sushing works only if she is in the sling so when I had her on our bed she cried 1 hour. She is waking up now every 5 minutes! I don't think she was overstimulated - we were at our parents house for an hour and when we got home she was tired so I just bathe her, fed her and started wind down.
Please help me to start E.A.S.Y. with her!

[*Kara*]

Hello and welcome

Your English is just fine so no worries there

A few questions to get started:

1. is she closer to 3 months old, or is she almost 4 months old now?

2. Breast or bottle fed?

3. Could you post a typical day in EAS format?  Like this:

E 7am
A
S 830-10am  etc... remember that A time includes everything from eyes open until eyes closed.

* * Most importantly, you haven't done anything wrong hun... very few babies have a solid routine before 3 months of age - they are going through growth spurts every few weeks and are masters of the cat nap until they get weight gain well established   This is a great age to start a routine!

[Lollipop86]

Thank you for your encouragement!
To answer your questions:
1. she will be 3 months tomorrow
2. she is breast fed
3. we started EAS only 2 days ago and we have big problems getting her to sleep but...
E 8.30
A
S 9.10-9.45 (I had to wake her up for sunday mass - I won't do that ever again!)

E 11
A
S 11.45-14 (with a lot of waking up and then soothing her. She slept 2x 30 minutes at once)

E 14
A
S 15.45-17

E 17
A
S 18.15- approx. 19
Then it got like every night - she wakes up and she won't go back to sleep till 21.30-22.30. Last night she was sleeping at 21.30

** I think I should lead a routine before - she had sleeping problems since she was born. And we went out soon. We went to our parents house every day for the whole day (It was hot in our apartment) for 14 days. Then we went to the seaside for 10 days... And now she is not used to falling asleep anywhere! I have BIG problems there. She will go to sleep fast only in fathers arms in a sling with her ears close to the radio wiht the wacuum cleaner sound... I have big problems getting her to sleep! This morning I struggled 15 mins and she slept 10 mins then again 15 mins of soothins. Nothing helped so I breastfed her. Then se falled asleep (which rearly helps) and she slept 45 mins. Now she is awake 35 mins ang getting cranky if I let her alone to play.
The problem is that I am getting to fear my own baby! When she sleeps I can feel my hands and legs shake and listening when she will wake up! When I have to soothe her and she is crying I get frustrated after 5 mins and she feels that! I'm insecure! And I hate being alone every day till 4 pm! I can't go out with her because of the cold weather and she hates the stroller... I hope things will get better soon.

[Lollipop86]

Ok, now she was up 10.30.-11.30. I started to put her to sleep in baby carrier and she managed to fall asleep 11.45. I hope it lasts a while. (ok, she is up! it's 11.57!)
She is a lisht sleeper. If I put her down she opens her eyes and checks where she is and starts crying if she is not like before. And that is if she sleeps 5, 10 or 30 mins. WHAT DO I DO??? I don't want to tap her every 5 mins and listen to wacuum cleaner every 2 hours!

[*Kara*]

Hugs hun - she is certainly overtired right now... don't worry, we will help get you on track!

Is there a way that you can get her to sleep for a long time (like in your arms while you sit on the couch??)

I have to wake my toddler from her nap now, but will be back later to help with more advice   For now, just do whatever it takes to get some sleep into her

[Lollipop86]

Yesterday was almost perfect. Just that she had a lot of gas and she slept in my arms in a sling during the day.

E 7.30
A
S 9.00

E 11.20
A
S 13.00

E 15.25
A
S17.20 - 18.00

Than it was all weird - S 20.30 - 21.20 (I think tummy pain); 22.15 - 00.00 (gas), than woke up twice for breastfeeding and than 7.50
Now she slept only about 1/2 hour in one piece and on and off from 9 to 10.15. (I had to put her down to go to the bathroom) She is completely awake now and in a good mood.
I have a problem though - I breastfeed her now to make her sleepy. This means that I feed her on 1,5 hours. She eats a lot both times. Sometimes from both sides. So eating routine is totally confused now. Is that OK? I'm just afraid that she will get too much first milk and she will have digestive problems. (she has greenish poop anyway almost every day)

And also - how long does it usually take to beat overtiredness?
I think she is being overstimulated too because she has several toys on her gym and colorful pictures over the changing table. Do visits count as stimulation? If we go to our parents house?

[*Kara*]

Everything that she sees/hears counts as stimulation.  Visits with new voices (or anyone that she doesn't see all the time - like you) can be quite stimulating as she is likely being passed around person to person as everyone wants to hold the new baby.  Gym time should really be limited to 10 mins at a time at this age and all at the beginning of her A time.

Breastfeeding to make her sleepy could be a big issue - she will become dependent of feeding to get herself to sleep.  If her A time is right, you don't need to "make her sleepy" as she will be tired already... a quick wind down will be enough to help her settle.  She should be BFing every 3 hrs (or so) at her age.

From your day that you just posted, it does look like an A time of 1 hr 40 mins is perfect for her!  She may have been overtired at bedtime and that's the reason she was awake a few times after you put her down... the catnap at dinner time is just to get her through bath and wind down... so really, that last bit of her night should be a touch less than her normal A time... maybe 1 hr 20 mins.

[Lollipop86]

First of all I have to say THANK YOU! Your tips are working already.
- we know when she is tired and we start to put her down
- we try not to overstimulate her
- she falls asleep easier
- I think breastfeeding her to sleep was only temporary because she was overtired. Now I can do it without BF so we are getting back on track - 3 hr.

I'm sorry I have so many questions. I really don't have the time to search the forum and anyway my "search" here doesn't work...
But as we say in Slovenia: "Beseda ni konj." (A word is not a horse so it doesn't hurt to ask.
- If she is up 1,5 hours and she needs to be fed every 3 hours, than how is she supposed to sleep longer than 1,5 hours? I mean she does sometimes but every time...
- I cannot carry her all day because my arms or my behind will fall off! So I am starting to put her on my bed and lay with her. But that way she sleeps only 1/2 - 1 hour! So how do I solve this with BF and all that? Is it bad that she has more short naps during the day?  (she woke up today 7.30 but her sleep at 9 was only 1/2 hours and then I couldn't put her back down. She was happy But then she was sleepy after 1 hour.
- I really don't know how to prolong her naps if she is not in my arms... Does she need time to get over it? Or is maybe something wrong that she has such a light sleep? (she moves all the time, farts, opens her eyes...)
- At night she wakes up every 2 hours now! And I BF her... I think maybe she has some digestive problems because she moans and farts a lot...
- If gym time is only 10 mins - what do you do with your baby the rest of the time? Have her in your arms and talk to her for 1 hour?

OK, I hope I'm not annoying with all this! I appreciate your time!

[*Kara*]

she woke up today 7.30 but her sleep at 9 was only 1/2 hours and then I couldn't put her back down. She was happy But then she was sleepy after 1 hour

This makes me think she may have been a bit undertired..  the fact that she wouldn't go back down leads me to think we weren't that far off her perfect time, she was rested enough to not go back to sleep, but then was tired after only an hour...  30 min naps are often overtired, but can signal undertired baby as well.  Given that she had a good nap the day before after 1 hr 40 mins, I would aim for that again...

Waking up every 2 hrs overnight is likely because she is overtired after having a day of short naps... she never gets a proper rest.  This will subside once we get her naps lengthened  

As for what to do with her: I used to read to DD, or put her in her bouncy seat while I did the dishes etc and would just chat with her and tell her what I was doing... I used to lay on the floor next to her and just smile and talk to her... that sort of thing.. you don't need to do much to entertain a 3 month old

As for the concerns about nap length and feeding times... it's okay if she sleeps a bit longer than 1.5 hrs, even if her feed is due.. as she gets nearer to 4 months, she will increase her A time and the time between feeds too

[Lollipop86]

I think my baby is a high need infant.    http://www.askdrsears.com/?q=topics/fussy-baby/high-need-baby/5-reasons-why-high-need-infants-sleep-differently

She wakes up even in my arms if I'm still on my bed in a quiet dark room. I can't believe that. Every fart wakes her up.  I'm so tired of this... And my shoulders hurt!
OK so for now I just continue this - sleeping in the sling and soothing her back to sleep if she wakes up. So that she sleeps at least 1,5 hours? Or more? And than how to continue? I'm sorry but i'm so pesimistic at this point!!I think it will never end!!


OMG, she is such an angel when she is awake!! She started smiling a lot and talking, admiring my hair... I know it's a reminder that everything will be ok in the end and that I must be doing something right. But it's so hard at times...

[*Kara*]

It is very hard at times..

I would start putting her down for her naps in either her crib or a bassinet.  If she wakes, help her resettle with a bit of shush pat...

[Lollipop86]

Hm, it's easier said than done...    The ssh/pat system doesn't work for us unless I pick her up and even then she gets more angry. Than it takes 5-10 mins to get her to sleep at least a bit and when I put her back down she awakes emediately. Should I ssh/pat her and let her cry? I think this only wakes her more. And she doesn't get proper sleep anyway because even if she manages to cry to sleep she will wake up after 1/2 hours.

Yesterday we had 3x1,5 hour naps and a catnap 6-7 pm. Than she couldn't go to sleep till 10.15 pm. I put her on my bed and quietly told her a story at 8. She was quiet and almost closed her eyes and than all of a sudden she started to wave her hands and was completely awake. She calmed down only after BF... (it was time for that

So, will the naps in time get longer by themselves? Is it ok 3x1,5 hours? I think in time maybe they will become 2x2-3?


I found this sample that's close to ours at this point... (just BT is earlier)
2.
3.5 hour EASY
1.5 hour A time
three-1.5 hour naps and one catnap
Total daytime sleep: 5 hr. 15 min.
Total nighttime sleep: 11 hrs)   

7am – eat 6.5oz
8:30 in bed by 8:30
Wakes at 10:15
10:30 eat 6.5oz
11:45am – in bed by 11:45
Wakes at 1:15-1:30pm
2pm eat 6.5oz
2:45 in bed by 2:45pm
Wakes at 4:15pm
5:30 eat 5.5 oz
5:45 nap in bed by 5:50pm (cat nap)
wake at 6:30 (ish)
bed by 8pm 6oz

[*Kara*]

three naps of 1.5 hrs is perfectly fine!

I think you are on the right track... when you do shush pat, does she fuss or is it all all out cry?  If she is just fussing it could be that she doesn't like part of the shush/pat.. some babies don't like the patting, others don't like the shush part...   you just have to experiment and see what she likes.  My DD liked to have my hand on her back (she is a tummy sleeper) and minimal rubbing (no patting!) with just the odd shush if she got worked up.  For the most part, she just wanted to feel my touch on her back to know I was still there if she needed me. 

Have you tried to just put DD down to sleep and walk away at BT?  At 3.5 months, my DD would just drift off on her own quite easily

[Lollipop86]

That is very nice to read! 

Well she likes ssh/pat if she is in my arms. If she is on the bed it's not good enough for her.
Today she managed to sleep for her morning nap on the bed with vacuum cleaner sound loud and patting. Btu when she woke up after 40 mins and she was quiet and I started to pat her emediately - the vacuum cleaner was still on - she couldn't go back to sleep. Than I put her in the carrier... Do you think this is a good start? Or it's not good to move her and all that?
And also my friend says it's not good to get her used to vacuum cleaner because it's hard to quit...
Yesterday I put her on the bed for BT and it was like this morning. I let her in the dark when she was quiet but she couldn't go back to sleep and after a while started fussing.

[*Kara*]

I think it's a great start!  The 40 min nap could mean she was UT for that nap though, especially given that she wouldn't go back to sleep.

The white noise of a vacuum is fine... loads of LO's sleep better with it (adults too!) as it will help drown out noises from outside etc... some LO's have no issues with stopping the noise, you just lower the volume over time...