8 week old NW's

[becj86]

Hugs honey, its totally understandable - babies are so confusing. These early days with a new baby are hard, even without PPD, additional children to care for, etc.

So from 2:15-7:13 she may be treating it like her night like the long naps she was having at the end of the day when all this started.

I think you're right and her night has now shifted from 4-4 to 3-3 and now to 2-2. Really if you want to get her 'right' in terms of day/night, here are the steps:
* Outside in the sun for a little time during every A time if possible, most importantly the first A time of the day.
* No nap longer than 2hr during the day
* Minimal interaction during night wakings (pick your time, eg. 7pm-7am and every waking there is considered a night waking) - feed, change nappy if required, no talking, no unnecessary light.

I think re: feeding fast and frequently at night, maybe just block feed then, since your other feeds seem a reasonable space apart and the early hours of the morning are when she's struggling most. I'd also suggest lying back to feed then, as that's when your supply is highest since you've been resting your energy can go into making milk http://www.biologicalnurturing.com/

I'm happy to stick with you til we can get this sleep thing sorted out. Do you have any IRL support re: PPD? Please feel free to post on the PPD forum for advice and support relating to that if you need to. You need to look after yourself too, in all of this

[jcsmom]

Well we were wrong about the 2-2 but for sure 5:30-5:30. She went down at 5:20 for her catnap and I woke her after an hour. She was not pleased and went back to sleep within 45 mins. Then was up at 11:30 then 3:30 then 5:30 for the day. I managed to get her to doze and now she is in her swing sleeping. I figure she needs about 16.5 hours in 24. So how do we spread it out? She just kEeps shifting and shifting.I think what happens every so often is she is UT at BT then gets OT so the frequent wakings.
What would an EASY look like with that amount of sleep? I think her body clock is pretty messed up right now!

[jcsmom]

Should I just go with the 5:30-5:30 for now or stick with 7-7? She woke today at 5:22 but really only dozed until 7. So her first nap was OT. This is what has been happening. I am trying so hard for a 7 waking that this dozing may not be sleep at all so her first nap is always 40 mins (OT here). But if I nap her at 6:45 am in the swing then we just keep shifting more and more sleep to the day. So from 5:22-8 when her first nap was she was really only dozing. I am trying to go by A time from then as suggested. When she falls asleep for her "catnap" at 5ish do I just let her sleep like it's night or do I wake her after 45 mins. Then her day is super long from 5:22 am to 7 thus perpetuating this cycle. Why does infant sleep have to be so hard?
I am getting support for my PPD. I decided to go on meds again. I am always so anxious about her sleep as you can probably tell!But it's hard when I am hardly getting any myself!

[becj86]

I think at this age, you're best going for 7-7 and just doing it rather than trying to get onto a routine and then shift it because you won't be able to shift it by large enough increments to make any real difference because her A time is so small still.

So from 5:22-8 when her first nap was she was really only dozing.

What does this mean? Was she dozing from 5:20-7, then awake til 8? What about taking A time mid-way through the dozing, so its not all sleep but not all awake either, so take awake as 6:15/6:30 in this instance and PD for a nap at 7:30/7:45? That'll get you closer to 7-7, at least...

[jcsmom]

I give up. She was up literally all night last night. She went down at 6:45 and woke at 10:45. I fed her and put her back down at 11:15. She was up after 30 minutes. So I rocked her and put her down again, up after 30 minutes. So I finally brought her into bed with me and nursed again. She fussed and played and fussed and played some more. Then at 4 she fell asleep but woke after 30 minutes. I nursed her and she fell asleep from 5:30-6 and was up for the day. She was so hyper, sticking out her tongue, kicking her legs. Shaking almost. You should see her eyes, red and huge bags. I am so upset and exhausted today. What is causing this? So from 6:45-6am she slept 4 hours plus a few 30 minutes. I nursed at 10:45, 1ish, and 5. She was literally awake most of the night. Not crying just wide awake hyper and wiggly. It's 7:30 now and she's still not asleep in her swing.
My husband thinks she addicted to the swing so she can't sleep without it. If this is true, how do I wean her off it? She needs sleep and I need sleep.

[becj86]

Have you got her cot elevated? Is she sleeping in the swing with it going or just still?

Waking after 30min really suggests pain to me. Will she sleep any other way than in the swing?

Sticking out her tongue... it rings little bells for me but I can't figure why. Will ask around for you.

[ZacsMumme]

Any signs of reflux discomfort Hun?
The tongue thing is a classic reflux symptom, and also for hunger too which is why it can be mistaken
GS are the pits with refluxers because you never know what's going on. I'm wondering if there is some discomfort, then frequent feeding or a GS has created more of a problem and upset her nights KWIM?
Reflux 101 - General reflux information

Personally I think she's to young to have a swing prop...but that's just my opinion 12-16 weeks is more when props really develop. X

[ZacsMumme]

Sorry just realised Bec already asked about reflux....still wondering though? Any swallowing, gulping, pain sounding cries during A or S time. .

[Erin M]

Personally I think she's to young to have a swing prop...but that's just my opinion  12-16 weeks is more when props really develop. X

This is my opinion too.  At her age, she's sleeping better in the swing for a reason -- and it honestly sounds like the elevation is what's helping her to sleep better -- is the swing moving while she's in it, or is it stationary?  My ds did not sleep well at night as a baby, but he slept great during the day, classic day/night reversal so I knew that he could sleep flat, he just wasn't doing it.  Along with the signs of reflux, have you got any signs of overactive let down (Poop.  What's normal, what's not and when to panic) or food intolerances?  Does she have normal (for a breastfed baby) looking poops -- some info here -- Poop.  What's normal, what's not and when to panic
(((hugs))) honey, it's hard to be so tired!

[jcsmom]

Last night was no better. We let her sleep in the swing (moving always) until my Dh came to bed at 11:30 as soon as she was moved she was up. I nursed and put her back down and 1.5 hours later she was up. Fighting to nurse so I did. Back down. Then I slept in the nursery again and from when I put her down it was quiet for 30 mins then the head turning, legs thrashing, yawning, quiet. Repeat with a sneeze or 2 thrown in. She's awake that whole time. Then at 4:50 she cried out. I got her and she'd pooped so I changed her and nursed again. I held her in hopes of more restful sleep but the whole time she was sleeping it was fitful. Legs moving, head turning. Whimpers like she will wake then quiet. This went on until 6:16 am. When she is awake she is super happy. Very little crying at all. Her AM nap has been only 30 mins everyday this week. She is shattered when she wakes. I looked at the poop pics and hers seem normal. She poops after every feed though. Yesterdays naps were 30 mins then 1.75, then just over an hour then 40 mins. Her napping is not stellar and we try to keep A times to 1:15. She still yawns at 30 and 45 mins and that's it. Her eyes are always glazed over. She may be getting 12 hours total in 24. I have considered hiring a sleep consultant to help us I am at my wits end.

[Erin M]

Sorry, I realized I put the wrong link up there for the overactive let down --- http://kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/supply-worries/fast-letdown/

Will she sleep in the swing if it is still?

[jcsmom]

And the NW's continue. Last night 10:30 and 1:30 where she was awake until 4:30! I tried the swing and she just fussed and fussed. Then she fell asleep nursing in bed with me. She twitches every 10 mins or so. I assumed that this is in her sleep. But perhaps she was awake that whole time? When I woke at 7 she was quiet so I thought great! She's sleeping. Nope eyes wide open. So when we started our day she already seemed OT and gave me a 30 minute nap. She is such a strange child. She won't sleep in a non-moving swing. Wakes as soon as we turn it off. My DH has been letting her sleep in there until he comes to bed so I can get some rest. Yesterday her naps were terrible too. We just can't seem to get on an EASY 7-7 routine no matter what I do.

[Erin M]

At her age of she needs to sleep in the swing, I'd let her sleep in the swing.  Once she gets a little bigger you can decrease the motion of the swing, then stop it all together, and then transition her out of there.  There was a mom I knew on here when dd2 was small who extended every nap her son took in the swing for months.  He transitioned out of it ok. 

[jcsmom]

She's 10 weeks today. Yesterday she would not take her catnap so she was up from 4:25-7. So first NW was at 10:30-12:15. Then I heard her rustling in her cot from 12:30-1:30 then she cried out. So I got her and fed her. Then she was up again at 3:30. Then from 3:30. No sleep. Literally. Maybe 10 minutes her and there. On my breast in the rocking chair. Again I brought her into bed and she was wide awake. Until 5:15. She fussed off and on my breast and slept 10 mins then woke repeat until 7 am. I just don't get it. I mean how can a baby go with such little sleep? 10 hours in 24? I mean really?

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs, my poor boy had little sleep at this age, it was discomfort (reflux) I really do think when they have such unsettled sleep pain is involved
Agree with the others, just get her that sleep any way you can for now. Is she swaddled? I may help with the twitching.