Sleep routine for 3 year old with ezcema. Please HELP!

[caprizzosa]

Please I need your help.  Allow me to tell you the background. My 3 year old has had eczema since very little but usually under control. Unfortunately about 13 months ago my husband, who used to look after him during the day, had a stroke so I had to send him to nursery. Nursery has made his eczema worse and for almost 13 months I have been up with him several times almost every night . He has also change to big bed and that has made things more difficult Ashe gets up from bed. Getting him into bed its a nightmare now. He refuses to go and wants me to sit on a chair next to him till he falls asleep which an take quite long even though he takes Puritan at night to help him with the itching and sleeping apart from the numerous creams and lotions. So I'm am sooooooooo tired I a getting too stressed with him.
We need a bedtime routine to help him unwind and be cool and comfortable. He is a bit spirited I think. He always argues going to bed. Also, I don't know if he is waking because he is in discomfort or because of separation anxiety? Or he just wants attention?  I have to mention that we spend quite a few nights in the sofa, he lies on one end and I lay on t he other ends and he will sleep the rest of the night through! The reason why I take him to the sofa is because he shares room with big brother and I don't want to disturb him even more.
Hope all these makes sense and someone ca help me put thing in order before incomplete go insane. I should also mention he does not have a nap at nursery.
So how can I sleep train a 3 year old with eczema that shares a too with older brother and wakes up most. Nights several times a night but when sleeps with mummy, not necessarily in my arms sleeps the night through?
Please any help welcome. Apologies if this needs to go somewhere else but as you see lots of issues at the same time
Thanks in advance.

[Truly Blessed]

Hello Honey and welcome    First of all (Hugs) to you on the hard time you're having, Motherhood can be exhausting at times. Also, so sorry to hear about your Husbands stroke, how is he  will he fully recover eventually 

Can I ask if your little boy has been an 'Independent sleeper' in the past, as in, was he able to settle himself to sleep previously 

WRT him getting out of bed, do you have a baby gate on the door  that is always helpful to give him the message that he needs to stay put. I have a LO who is textbook/spirited too, so I know how spirited LO's can be at BT  How you move forward depends on whether he has been previously ST or not, so I will wait for you to get back to me on that. However I think Tracy's Gradual Withdrawal method would be a good approach for him. Here is a link for you about Gradual Withdrawal and Walk in/Walk out.

Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

I have no experience of a LO with eczema but I can only imagine how much more difficult it makes things, it must be awful  I have asked for some back up  from my fellow Moderators to see if anyone has any specific advice about that. It may be helpful to post on the Health, Medical and special needs forum to get advise from other Mammy's with LO's with eczema. Here is the link for that forum:

Health, Medical, & Special Needs

Does he still nap at home  Do you think he is getting over tired at nursery and then playing catch up on no nursery days  it is likely that this is affecting his night sleep and causing the NW if that is the case, and how relevant the eczema is will no doubt become more apparent once he is an Independent Sleeper and has a routine that hopefully will work for him.

Hang in there Hun, I will await your reply and maybe have other eyes on this for you soon.

Vicki.x.

[caprizzosa]

Thank you so much for getting in touch. In answer to your questions...about sleep by himself. It has always been tricky but he has done it in the past. He did however used to get out of bed, get some toys and eventually fall asleep anywhere. This issue with me being with him and sitting next to him has only started recently. The problem I have with this is that he keeps asking for things or for more creams when he does no really need them. Is just another way of fighting/ delaying bed time as there are better things to do.
Abou the gate on the door... He shares room with his older brother who is 7. This issue also make things difficult with sleep training but I could also move him to my bed for a few days while I concentrate on the little one. It just seems like he gets a rush of extra energy in the evenings!.... So maybe I need a simple bedtime routine that could work with both? The 3. And the 7 year old? Any ideas? I am happy to answer many more questions, just want some structure and a clue on how to makes things better. Thank you so much!!

[Truly Blessed]

The problem I have with this is that he keeps asking for things or for more creams when he does no really need them. Is just another way of fighting/ delaying bed time as there are better things to do.

This is exactly it Hun, you know him well. It's typical of this age, my DS is exactly the same.

You didn't say what his routine is at the moment  Could you post his morning wake up time/if he naps his nap time and length and also his bed time. The bed time circus tends to be something that happens when LOs are going through the 1-0 transition, they are not quite ready to drop the nap but if they don't nap they often need a really short day in order to cope. Here is some a link below which is all about dropping the nap:

The 1-0 transition...Advice and Tips to help you through.

I'm sure you may recognise some of the behaviour mentioned.

Let me know what his routine is at the moment and we can take it from there 

x.

[caprizzosa]

Ok. He does not have naps at the nursery. We took them away as he was not having them at home and his bed time was getting later and later. But there is the occasional time when he comes back from nursery asleep. I have always put it down to not having enough sleep at night time as he wakes up so many times during the night. I tried to out him in bed by 8.30 the very later. We don't get home till around 6pm so hour routines have always been a bit continental. He is up between 7.30 and 8am though I most time have to wake him up and dress him up half asleep. Again he  wakes up so often that we are both knackered in the mornings. After dinner it is very difficult to have a w
Ind down routine . I always try to have him ready with pjs and creams and then asked them to sit down with a book or maybe do some drawing. Though most nights he acts play with his older brother. Basically evening time is a nightmare as I find it difficult to find something that works for both the 3 and the 7 year old. I am also so tired that if I am honest I give up many times.
At home weekends he sometimes falls asleep and has a nap. But again I have always put it down to him being tired from the lack of sleep during the night. I he naps, I tend to cut it short because then he won't be wanting to go to bed at night until 11pm or later sometimes!
I know I have no structure or routine but I am so absolutely tired that I don't know how to work it out. Not sure where to start. Hopes this helps. Again, many thanks!

[Truly Blessed]

Bless you Hun, I know it's so hard. What you tell me screams over tired to me. I think that he is struggling after dropping the nap and he needs a much shorter day. I think he is 'wired' and extremely OT by BT hence the trouble he's having. I know it is difficult with 2 LO's to consider but it there any way you can let him sleep until 8 am but have him in bed by 6.30 or 7 at the absolute latest  My DS is 3 in January and on a no nap day he can only handle a 10.5 hour day and this is common for many LO's of the same age. He may not need an 11 hour day for too long but certainly for now I suspect it's the only way you can over come how tired he is and all the NW's.

x.

[caprizzosa]

The problem is that I do not get home from work till six and then I have to cook dinner hence late evening though they have suited him before.  Would it help if he was to have naps at nursery? In fact I did aske them to give him at least quiet time. If I need to put him in bed for 7pm the latest, how do I move his bed time by 1 hour and 1/2 so suddenly? Do I start doing wi/wo gradually from start?. If I  put I'm in bed this early, then he won't have any time for winding down...? Also what can I do to wind down as they have all toys in their room, it is difficult.
I am really appreciating all the advice. Thanks so so much!

[Truly Blessed]

how do I move his bed time by 1 hour and 1/2 so suddenly?

You just do it Hun, it sounds like he's chronically OT, so there is every chance if you get his day length right he will go down much faster. When you pick him up from nursery has he already eaten there  if so could you concentrate on getting him down asap then make dinner  I do appreciate how difficult it is Hun, I really do. So if you think with the best will in the world it is not possible then I would do everything you can to get him to take a nap again, and at nursery too. If with a nap his nights were as late as 11 pm, I suspect his nap was either too late/too long or both  I have BTDT and we had 9.45 BT's back then...exhausting 

What do you think 

x.

[caprizzosa]

I was talking to my husband about what you said. Your last coments made me think...he has breakfast at home and sometimes seconds at nursery. He has his lunch and tea at nursery too. When he comes back home though, he always goes straight to the fridge so what he eats at school is  obviously not enough. But if he gets home for 5 ( I don't get till 6)n my husband cannot cook but he can make him some toast and cheese and carrot battons and slice peppers and gogurt and fruit....not a hot meal but healthy enough plus he does get cooked meals at nursery. So then when I get home I could put his pjs on read him a story and put him in bed for 7pm. My eldest son is 7. Whem he gets back from school he always asks for a snack, so that should be enough to keep him going till dinner time. It would mean that dinner would be delayed till 8ish but then he goes to bed by 8.30-9pm as he likes to read. But he is not the problem as he sleeps very well and if he does not wake up in the mornings properly it is only because its schoold day ( he never has a problem getting up early 6ish at weekend
Does this all make sense? It would be quite a change and very challenging but if it pays off? I will still ask them at nursery to give him chill out! Rest time of no more than an hour?
Thanks!

[caprizzosa]

Just wanted to add...at present I tend to bring him out into the living room because he shares a room with his brother and I don't want him to be disturb. Do you think I should maybe put his brother in my bed while I sleep train the little one? Also when I bring him to the sofa with me, he does sleep through, so do you think there is an element of anxiety? As I have said before, I don'teven  have him in my arms.? Any ideas on this?
I know I sound like a broken recors but thank you, thank you for helping us see things a bit more clearly!! Xx

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Hun, first of all, you're so welcome, it's my pleasure to try and help you  Okay, so yes, that sounds great to me. Presumably you will let him lie in, in the morning until 8.00 if he wants to, and BTW why not take him to nursery in his pyjamas if necessary with his coat etc on top, they can change him there. This might sound like a silly idea but it's their job to understand what you are trying to achieve  and why.  I would definitely move DS 1 out into your room, I guess he's old enough to understand if you explain what's happening. WRT DS 2 sleeping through when you're there, yes, there could be an element of anxiety. Chances are when you co sleep, he still wakes up but resettles when he sees you're there. It's normal for Toddlers to wake up several times a night but when they're sleep trained they resettle themselves. Apparently little boys wake more than little girls  When Mammy or Daddy is there when they go to sleep but gone when they wake often that is what causes the anxiety, the same as with a baby.

Have you decided to do Gradual Withdrawal 

WRT wind down, a couple of books will do nicely when he is tucked up in bed. My DS has toys in his room, it shouldn't make any difference.

x.

[caprizzosa]

I am goint to try with the in and out first and see as he knows how to settle himself. Maybe even going back into the room every 5 minutes so he knows I am coming back? His skin is not too good at the moment so he is on antibiotics to help clear it up. Hence we are going to wait till next week to start with routine as he will be more comfortable. This will also allow me to get a plan in action with his keyworker at nursery. I am really looking forward to start and I promise I will make it work! I am so glad I came back to BW...
Will keep you inform on how we are getting on! Thanks a million again!! xx

[Truly Blessed]

I am goint to try with the in and out first and see as he knows how to settle himself. Maybe even going back into the room every 5 minutes so he knows I am coming back?

Okay Hun, as long as he has been able to self settle in the past WI/WO may work, otherwise Tracy recommended GW for non Independent sleepers. Stand at the door and if he is crying determine whether it is his 'I need you Mummy cry' or whether he is just unhappy but trying to settle himself. Just try and make sure if he is genuinely upset you do go back to him, or else it could turn into Controlled Crying, which I know you wouldn't want  . Listen to him and go with your Mother's Instinct' rather than by the clock.

I will keep everything X'd for you Honey. Yes, please do keep me informed. Good Luck!!!  I will be here for you, if you have any questions along the way.

(Hug)

Vicki.x.

[Buntybear]

Hi there,

Vicki seems to have helped you out a lot already and I have to agree that he does sound OT. Was he recently 3 or is he nearer 4?

Coming at it from another point of view - the eczema. I would have thought it would be hard to sleep train if he is suffering. Of course change his routine around and try and get him to bed earlier, or get a catch up nap in the day but really I would be looking to get to the root cause of his eczema too. Has he ever had any allergy tests? Have you a gut feel what it could be? Olly would get eczema on his tummy when he went to nursery and we worked out that it was from his tummy would rub on the carers clothes when he was held and he was reacting to the fabric detergent  . We put him in a vest (washed with eco balls) and it cleared up. Of course with us it was getting to the root of his food allergies that really helped his ecamema.

Hope this helps. - You may want to start an new thread on the Health board about his eczema though and keep it seperate to this thread.

HTHx

[caprizzosa]

Hi again, It has been a looooong time but as promised wanted to keep you updated. My son can definitely sleep on his own and through the night . He can also settle himself back into sleep . I have also learned that he wakes up happy when he sleeps for 10 hours a night on a row. Rest time in the day can help but to be honest not sure if at nursery he gets the nap time every day. So all that is very good news!
Now I till have the problem of the eczema and also need some help about spirited/book children...will have to see where my post is best suited for this as my son never stops and always seems to be overstimulated at bed time, never ready for bed,no matter what I do.
All in all though there has been improvement!!!
Thank you!!xx