Set naps for a 5 month old - has anyone gone down this route?

[*Kara*]

Just marking my spot - have to wake my toddler from her nap now but I have a LSN kid and have done set naps since she was 5.5 months old

[*Kara*]

Hello

I have to agree with the other ladies hun... we need to get that first A time cut back... he is crashing into that first nap and waking him from it will create wicked OT very quickly.  In fact, I suspect he has a pretty high level of OT accumulated now...

As for capping naps - I am totally against it before 8/10 months for a LSN kid... they are notorious for not adding to night sleep when day sleep is shortened... and it will snowball quickly.  The only time I capped was when the PM nap started to interfere with BT, even then DD had a 90 min nap in addition to 90 mins in the AM.

I wouldn't wake in the AM now either.. if he needs to catch up, this is critical to getting him there.  Night sleep is far superior compared with nap sleep in terms of restorative quality.

So,
 
Let him wake on his own and see when he gets up...

assuming a 7am wake up... I would try for first nap no later than 10am, preferably 945am.   Or we could try keeping biology on our side and try 9am...

I do wonder if you have just missed his sleep window while increasing his first A time and he is getting a second wind to get through that massive A time...

[lynners]

Hi Kara,

Thanks for your post.  Great to find someone who's used set naps.   

Got a few questions for you please.  It's so hard to think that my LO is generally OT.  He's happy most of the time.  The only times he shows being OT is sometimes when I can't get him to CN....hmmm...and everytime he gives me a 40 min happy nap we increase the A and get a good nap.  Tomorrow we have DS1's nativity play in the morning so even if I decide to cut the A as much as suggested I can't tomorrow.  At least it gives me a little more time to think.  It would be a drastic change for us and I feel like we've been so careful with these A increases.

A few things then...

Hello
As for capping naps - I am totally against it before 8/10 months for a LSN kid

I was suggesting cutting his first nap if it was a set nap to try and get an appropriate A and fit in a good second nap.  If I let him sleep longer I would not be left with enough A for a good nap and could only maybe get a CN in there...but maybe one big nap as long as he wants and a CN would be preferable??  I have also had to cut naps before to work further naps around those tricky old school runs.

Hello

I wouldn't wake in the AM now either.. if he needs to catch up, this is critical to getting him there.  Night sleep is far superior compared with nap sleep in terms of restorative quality.

So,
 
Let him wake on his own and see when he gets up...

Does starting the day at the same time not help 'set his biological clock' to help with set naps?  Did you not do this with your set naps?  I remember always waking DS1 at 7.00 (as Tracy recommended I think).  Also would definitely make my mornings more challenging.  At the moment I feed him before getting DS1 up for school.  I find if DS1 is around, DS2 doesn't feed very well - gets distracted.  I suppose I could potentially let DS2 sleep in if necessary over the Christmas break if it's a temporary measure.

Hello

I do wonder if you have just missed his sleep window while increasing his first A time and he is getting a second wind to get through that massive A time...

You are making me question this.  I know his A is insane but feel like we have been very careful with the increases...and he goes down happily.  If we are missing his window wouldn't he be crazy cranky/OT when he went down and if he woke up early from his nap?

I am kind of thinking though that even though I'm really not sure that dropping his A so much will work for him maybe it's just worth a try.  We will at least get through the day because at least I know what his second A tends to be to try and get a good second nap if it goes wrong for the first.  What I'm nervous about though is if dropping his A so much does just result in 40 min UT naps it will take lots of incremental increases to get back to where we are.

Hmmm... 

[*Kara*]

Waking in the AM can help to get baby on a good routine, but once they are taking "regular" naps (even if they seem strange for baby's age), it won't do too much damage to allow him to wake naturally.  And no, I have never woken my DD in the AM.  Well, once, at 8am after a 13 hr night (MMR shots make for very sleepy babies!).

We will at least get through the day because at least I know what his second A tends to be to try and get a good second nap if it goes wrong for the first

But, an UT nap could work for the school runs if we get it right

Just remember that his second A time will change most certainly if we get an UT nap or if we find a sweet spot that he sleeps well with   I also think your second A time of just 2 hrs is because he is completely exhausted from that first monster A time.

What I'm nervous about though is if dropping his A so much does just result in 40 min UT naps

[lynners]

Thanks Kara, and Ima shel Anon (sorry I missed your last post!)

Ladies I've decided I'm definitely going to take your advice and reduce the A.  We'll see how it goes.

As I originally started my post in Night Wakings maybe I should continue it there and it would be great if you could follow me over and hold my hand...although it is more of  nap issue so maybe I should stay here   

[*Kara*]

I would stay with the Naps post

[Ima shel Alon]

Yes, I think the same like Kara. We can support you over here

[lynners]

Ok thanks ladies - I've let Bec and Erin know to close my NW's post.

[lynners]

Ok - so this was our day.  Would really appreciate advice for tomorrow please.

S 19.00
NW 21.45 (DF due at 22.00 so fed him anyway.  Have had a few NW’s at this time recently but not every day.  Have not been sure whether blip or OT.)
WU and E 6.39
A
S 10.00 – 11.40 (put him down at 9.30 going for a 3hA – mantra’d but more full on than normal.  Just at the end of the half hour he really started crying.  As I went up to settle him, he stopped and fell asleep...but yes got a good nap on less A.)
E 11.40
A
S 13.45 – 14.25 (was really trying to stay asleep, when woke up was calm but 5 mins later really crying – had also flipped on to tummy though.  Has been getting used to sleeping a lot on his tummy.)
E 14.25
A
S 16.05 – 17.00 (put down at 15.55, went down easily, probably woke at 16.45 and kept trying unsuccessfully to stay asleep, upset by 17.00)
QUICK E 17.30 Grumpy and needed placating while I was dealing with DS1
A
E 18.00
Bed 18.15
S  18.50 (Settled calmly though - usually does, but doesn't take as long)







 






 













 

[Ima shel Alon]

Wow, that is actually a good day!
I think, like Kara mentioned before, his second A can't be 2h anymore if you shortened the first one. IIWY I would do the second A the same as the first one.
I also think that he could have done with some more A time before BT.

[*Kara*]

Wow, that is actually a good day!
I think, like Kara mentioned before, his second A can't be 2h anymore if you shortened the first one. IIWY I would do the second A the same as the first one.
I also think that he could have done with some more A time before BT.

Agreed

[lynners]

oops - for some reason this didn't post last night,  Really need some help with my EASY today please.

This was our day - tricky -

S 18.50
NW & DF 21.30 (should be DF at 22.00)
WU and E 6.30
S 9.25 – 10.05 (went down with a bit of a yelp for 30 seconds, then asleep within 5 minutes, woke calmly – no idea now whether that’s UT or OS.  Had friend around who was given LO lots of attention, but no TV on or anything. Wouldn’t have thought particularly OS ?? )
10.30 E
S 12.20 – 13.00 ( know you suggested aiming for the same A but as he only had a 40min nap and he was getting cranky pulled the A back,  Ended up going down calmly and waking up calmly…hmmm)
E 13.45
S 15.50 – 17.20 (ended up feeding at 15.30 too as so fractious, calmed down and went in to cot dozy and calm, had to wake up)
A
E 18.35
S 19.05

So far we've then had -

DF 22.00
NW 4.00 - horrible one took over an hour to settle.
It's currently 8.10 and LO's still sleeping.  Unfortunately will have to wake him soon to take DS1 to school.







 






 













 

[Ima shel Alon]

Having a person over that LO is not used to have around can be stimulating. IIWY I would try and stick to this A for a few more days.

Can you give more details about the NW? Did you feed and he still won't settle? Was he crying a lot or just chatting in his cot? Do you use pat/shh?

[lynners]

Hi there,

NW was definitely crying not chatting.  I decided to settle him as he's been STTN without feeds other than his DF now for about 6 weeks.  I use shushing only as he's never liked the pat.  He did start really struggling in my arms though and rooting which of course made me worry that he was actually hungry.  As he'd already been crying for quite a while before he started rooting I decided that I was still going to have to settle with shushing and if he woke up again then I'd feed him.  We gave him teething gel too because I think we're definitely hitting that world - still cried for quite a while after.

As he was struggling in my arms I put him down in his cot and continued shushing.  He then found his fingers and eventually fell asleep.  He finally woke up 8.15 and was ok having his nappy changed etc. before having a feed, so at lease I realised that the NW wasn't about hunger.

[becj86]

Had friend around who was given LO lots of attention, but no TV on or anything. Wouldn’t have thought particularly OS ??

Just having a different person in the room was OS for L at that age

I think you probably need to stick with the 3hr A time first up for a good few days, maybe even a week or so to see any difference. One 40min nap doesn't necessarily mean its time to increase the A time again. Does make the rest of the day more tricky though.