Starting EASY for the first time with 4.5month old

[Ajustyna]

Hello everyone,
I am a first time mom to a 4.5month old little boy. I had an induction at 38weeks and didn't have much time to research different sleep methods before my lo was born. Overall for a while we felt he was a very good sleeper waking up one or twice a night, and going right to sleep after feeding. I am breast feeding him as well as giving one bottle of formula before bedtime. Recently I have started looking for some ways to get him to sleep through the night and came across the easy method which I think would work well for us. Until about a week ago he was eating approximately every three hours and started getting very uninterested in bf.  he would eat for about 3minutes on each side and the that was it. I have started feeding him every four hours and he is just fine with that. His weight gain is good according to the doctor. I keep track of all his sleep/awake feed time and there has been no pattern/routine. Some days he would nap maybe 3x for 30min other days two good two hour naps, there really is no pattern. I have now realized this needs to change.
For the past four days we have been on a 4hour easy schedule and my lo is doing quite well. He is fine and happy to do activity for two hours and eat every 4hours. His naps are starting to become more consistent and longer. I have started a dream feed at 10:30 in hopes that he will sleep longer.

I have a few questions:
-if baby wakes up and it is not time to eat yet what should I do? Try to put him back to sleep until the 4hour mark? Feed him early? Do some activity time and then feed him at 4hours?
-since the df baby has been up earlier for night time feeding. It has only been two nights. Should I try it for about a week and see if it improves?
-current bed time routine is :  bath, boob, bottle, sleep. (This is what we have been doing for a while and I know it needs to change. My little one gets very cranky at the breast at night which is why we started doing the bottle and it was wonderful. I'm thinking to change it to this: bottle (we are starting rice cereal next month) bath, boob, sleep and the df around 10:30.  Or should I just drop the last bf before bed?
-current bed time is between 830and 9. I know it's late but lo will sleep till 8 or 9am And I love this. Daddy doesn't get home till 630pm so it gives them a chance to play.

Any advice about starting a totally new routine is very much appreciated.  Thank you

I have tried to attach a screenshot of our schedule but not sure if it has uploaded.

[roxannesmum]

sorry I don't have any advice but what is the name of the app you use it looks great?

[Ajustyna]

No problem   The app is Total Baby and it is awesome.

[Ima shel Alon]

-if baby wakes up and it is not time to eat yet what should I do? Try to put him back to sleep until the 4hour mark? Feed him early? Do some activity time and then feed him at 4hours?

That depends on when he wakes up from his nap, if his nap is OT or UT and how far is E time.
Usually when a baby does 30-35min naps it indicates OT and 45min-1:20h naps would indicate UT. Another factor except for the length of the nap is how he wakes up - happy and chatty? Ut. Crying and grumpy? OT.
If your nap is OT then we recommend to try and settle back to sleep in a way that works for you already or with pat/shh. If the nap was UT it's almost impossible to resettle as baby is not tired enough and then you'd start your A and would feed either at WU if it's pretty close to the E time or you'd have your E in the middle of the A. You see, EASY is a routine, not a schedule so you'd need to be flexible with it

since the df baby has been up earlier for night time feeding. It has only been two nights. Should I try it for about a week and see if it improves?

What do you mean by that? Is the DF became an extra feeding at night time or substitute another feed and made another feed earlier? If you are still doing the DF and another NF and WU in the morning is still the same as before I'd keep doing the DF.

-current bed time routine is :  bath, boob, bottle, sleep. (This is what we have been doing for a while and I know it needs to change. My little one gets very cranky at the breast at night which is why we started doing the bottle and it was wonderful. I'm thinking to change it to this: bottle (we are starting rice cereal next month) bath, boob, sleep and the df around 10:30.  Or should I just drop the last bf before bed?

Why do you think what you are doing now is not good? Sounds great to me If you are happy to still BF at BT and then give a bottle and LO is happy with it as well, and if he goes down well at BT then I wouldn't change anything IIWY. Most mommies "feed to sleep" at BT. It's not really feeding to sleep if LO's eyes are open or if he is drowsy after this feed, it simply calms then down and that's ok.
WRT rice cereal I could imagine it can cause a few problems for you. Many babies, including mine, react badly to rice cereal with constipation and are much better starting with fruit that is lighter. Unfortunately, rice cereal will not make your baby STTN like most parents believe. You can read about it more here: "Is it true my baby will sleep better if I put a little baby cereal in a bottle?
The other thing is that it is recommended that when you start solids you start with breakfast, which gives LO enough time during the day to digest it without it disrupting sleep at night.
Solids can be hard on LOs, especially if they are BF and have not reached 6m, because their digestive system is not mature enough yet.

current bed time is between 830and 9. I know it's late but lo will sleep till 8 or 9am And I love this. Daddy doesn't get home till 630pm so it gives them a chance to play.

If baby has approx 12h day and 12h night, which sounds like you do, then there is no problem.

I would love to have a look at your routine, but I am afraid I am from the stone age and can not read those apps. If you like, you can write your routine in the "old fashioned" way in an EASY format:
8 - E
8-10 A
10-11:30 S

HTH for now, let me know if you have more questions

[Ajustyna]

Thanks for the answers

Here is yesterday:

WU/E - 6 (I don't know if he wants this to be his official wake up time or later??)
S-6:30 -7:00 (fell asleep bf)
A 7:00-7:40 (i put him down in his crib with his mobile on and started to get ready only to come back to find a sleeping baby)
S- 7:40 - 9:50
E - 10
A-10:15-1:45
S-11:45-1:30 (i had to go in at the 45min mark and pupd)
E-1:30
A- 1:45-3:30
S- 3:30 - 5:00 (woke at the 45min mark but was in his carseat can fell asleep quickly again)
E - 5:30
A- 5:40 -7:10
S-7:10 - 7:30 (struggle to put him down from about 6:50)
E - 7:45 (bottle)
A -7:50- 8:30 (bath/book)
E - 8:30 (breast for only about 2 minutes)
S - 8:50

DF - 10:15 (ate for about 8minutes but not very interested. Should i forgo the last feeding before sleep so that he eats more at the df? or do a bottle here instead?) Or just drop the DF alltogether? I just introduced this three days ago. 
WU - 11:40 but when back to sleep with pupd

The night went like this
WU/E-2:45-3:00
S- 3:00-6:00
WU/E-6:00
S-6:20-7:30
E -8:15 (I thought it would be a good idea to feed him so that he could go the four hours till 12)
S - 9:30 (I wanted to hold him off till 10 but that was no way.  Very cranky tired baby)

He is asleep now. 

I belive he is starting to get a tooth on the bottom middle left.  There is a tiny white speck on the gum and I ihink I can see the tooth underneath his gum..  I hope that is what is causing all of these night wake ups.  Till about a week ago he would sleep from 9pm to 4am with no dream feed. 

He is on a four hour eating schedule during the day but at night reverts back to a 3 hour. Should I hold him off and feed him at the 4 hour mark?

[Ima shel Alon]

His A time seems all right so right now I don't think there is any tweaking that I'd do to it IIWY.

WU/E - 6 (I don't know if he wants this to be his official wake up time or later??)

If he goes to bed at 20-21 there is no way he would want 6AM as his WU. I think you should look at it as a NF and put straight back to sleep after the feed and hope that he will sleep till 8-9. If he doesn't then you'd probably need to consider making BT earlier because it would indicate OT.

How does the PU/PD works for you? How long are you doing it for when LO wakes after 45min into his nap?
Tracey meant PU/PD to be a last resort and that pat/shh is used first. That's why we always recommend that first, especially for babies his age, where pat/shh works great. If it works for you and LO is not too distressed by it then forget what I just said I don't want you to change something that is working.

Should i forgo the last feeding before sleep so that he eats more at the df?

I wouldn't do that IIWY. You are aiming for LO to have most of his calories during the day, not night, and BT feed considers to be a day time feed.
I would give the DF a couple more days, if you see no change and he is still waking up twice for a NF (plus the DF he had) then I'd stop it. The DF works for many mommies, but not for all.
If he'll go back to 2 NF like he did before then IMO it would be ok, because it's normal for a BF baby to still feed twice at night at this age.

Teething can cause a lot of sleep disruption, so it could be what you are seeing now. Have you tried giving pain relief to see if it helps at night?

He is on a four hour eating schedule during the day but at night reverts back to a 3 hour. Should I hold him off and feed him at the 4 hour mark?

What could be happening is that he is relying still on the night calories because he is not getting enough calories during the day. BF babies usually go to a 4h gap between feeds later on, around 6m old. I think you mentioned before that he was not interested in feeding every 3h anymore, but perhaps 4h is too much for him?
If you are certain that he is getting enough during the day, then I would hold off the NF to the same gaps they are during the day.

[Ajustyna]

Tonight was much better.  His little tooth seem to almost fully be out so I'm hoping I can just attribute his last few hard nights to that. 

He woke up at 5am today and I put him back to bed and he slept till 7:45.  So he slept from 2300 to 745.  Does that sound like enough?

Pu/pd seems to work quite well for him.  If I go in and he is still in a bit of a sleepy mode that I try shush/pat but if eyes are wide open I pu/pd.

I'm going to give the DF a full week.  Tonight was good so hopefully I can attribute it to that.

I have tried to hold off the feedings so its 4 hours (the early morning one) but I'm not sure how to to this without throwing the entire day off.  Here is what yesterday/today was like.

WU-740
E-820
S-930-1020
A-1020-1120
S-1120-1200  (So here we had 90minute nap broken up by activity.  Thats ok correct? LO did not want to sleep after he woke up from his first nap)

E-1200
A-1200-1400
S-1400-1550

E-1630
A-1640-1820
S-1820-1850

E-1945 (breast)
A-2000-2040 (bath)
E-2040 (bottle)
S-2100

DF-2045

WU-300 (put him back to sleep with shush/pat.  I was hoping he would wake up at 4am for a feed but he slept longer than I expected. Should I wake him up to eat?? Or does that defeat the purpose of trying to get him to sleep through the night?)
wu/e- 500
S- 520-745
E-830  (Now its only been 3.5hours since his last feed but I was thinking that if I wait the 4 hours than my whole day will be off.  Even at 4hours my little one is barely starting to show cues that he is hungry.  Any time before that has very little interst)

Sorry for all the questions..

[Ima shel Alon]

He woke up at 5am today and I put him back to bed and he slept till 7:45.  So he slept from 2300 to 745.  Does that sound like enough?

He only went to bed at 23? I thought 20-21 is his BT...
If he only slept from 23 to 7:45 it's not enough, I'm afraid.

WU-740
E-820
S-930-1020
A-1020-1120
S-1120-1200  (So here we had 90minute nap broken up by activity.  Thats ok correct? LO did not want to sleep after he woke up from his first nap)

I don't quite get it...  The A between 10:20 and 11:20 is that you trying to settle him or him having a normal A time? Why did you offer a second nap after such a short A (1h)?

I was hoping he would wake up at 4am for a feed but he slept longer than I expected. Should I wake him up to eat?? Or does that defeat the purpose of trying to get him to sleep through the night?)

It's great that you managed to keep a good gap between the feeds here and I think you shouldn't wake him up. Waking him up other than the DF (that Tracey was specific when should take place - 22-23) can mess up with his sleep and you'll have more problems to deal with. And I also think it's great he manages to settle back to sleep so easily at 5
I still think you should try and feed at WU or perhaps 30min after WU the latest even if LO is not so interested. That's how I would do it. You can always give a top up later on so he is not hungry during his nap but if you want to keep the NF at 4h gaps AND have your day in an EASY pattern I can't see how you are going to do that without feeding at WU.
This is just a temporary "problem" (and solution because he will soon move or drop this feed.

[Ajustyna]

He only went to bed at 23? I thought 20-21 is his BT...
If he only slept from 23 to 7:45 it's not enough, I'm afraid.

Sorry he went to bed at 2100! Yes, I agree 2300 would be much too late.  So he slept from just before 2100 to almost 800.

I don't quite get it...  The A between 10:20 and 11:20 is that you trying to settle him or him having a normal A time? Why did you offer a second nap after such a short A (1h)?

He woke up after the first nap and I tried to settle him down but no luck.  After about 20min of pupd i just brought him downstairs and he played around in his rocker.  About 1100 he got very cranky and I put him down and he fell asleep very quickly till 1200.  I thought that this way he still got his "nap" of 1.5hrs but broken up by some A time. 

It's great that you managed to keep a good gap between the feeds here and I think you shouldn't wake him up. Waking him up other than the DF (that Tracey was specific when should take place - 22-23) can mess up with his sleep and you'll have more problems to deal with. And I also think it's great he manages to settle back to sleep so easily at 5
I still think you should try and feed at WU or perhaps 30min after WU the latest even if LO is not so interested. That's how I would do it. You can always give a top up later on so he is not hungry during his nap but if you want to keep the NF at 4h gaps AND have your day in an EASY pattern I can't see how you are going to do that without feeding at WU.
This is just a temporary "problem" (and solution because he will soon move or drop this feed.

So feed him when he wakes up around 8am even though its been 3 hours from the last feeding? He will typically take a feeding when he wakes up.  And then start my EASY 4hour routine after that first feeding? Sorry.. I agree, once he drops this feeding it will be much easier LOL.

[Ima shel Alon]

Sorry he went to bed at 2100! Yes, I agree 2300 would be much too late.  So he slept from just before 2100 to almost 800.

That's a great night!

He woke up after the first nap and I tried to settle him down but no luck.  After about 20min of pupd i just brought him downstairs and he played around in his rocker.  About 1100 he got very cranky and I put him down and he fell asleep very quickly till 1200.  I thought that this way he still got his "nap" of 1.5hrs but broken up by some A time. 

If it works for you then by all means go for it. I think I was puzzled because for most parents it doesn't work and then one would give either a full A after a short nap or the next A after a short nap would be the normal A - 10-15min. If he gives you signs that he is ready for another nap then it's great, for the rest of us it just causes UT

So feed him when he wakes up around 8am even though its been 3 hours from the last feeding? He will typically take a feeding when he wakes up.  And then start my EASY 4hour routine after that first feeding?

IMO, totally worth a try. It will keep things more simple for you, yk? There is so much complexity with a bay around, we should do what we can to simplify things