Refluxer getting enough milk? Feeding more at night :(

[ZacsMumme]

So I'm in two minds on this.
T will only have 120mls or so a feed. Any more and he is sick, fluxy and gets windy. He will also happly go 4 hrs between feeds dring the day but gets a touch dehydrated so I try to feed around 3-3.5 hrly. Bt feed results in hrs of unsettledness so I flag and his last feed is before bath. ~5/5.30 pm (try Bt by 6.30) this means he usually only gets 4 a day (ie 6.30/7, 10.15/10.30, 2, 5.30)

I started DF at 9/10 so I can get a stretch of sleep. He will feed 150mls here. But the wakes 3-4 hrs later for another. If i offer 120 mls he drains it,  should I offer more?

I worried he's having too much at night and not enough during the day...but I'm not sure I can do much about it with his reflux I also am reluctant to not feed unless its been less than 3-3.5 hs be ause his reflux and tummy troubles are not 100% controlled ATM.

Any ideas/thoughts to ease my worry, or tips?

[*Kara*]

Hi Sara... just bumping you up - I have no BTDT with reflux...

[ENMS]

hey hon.

TBH although M did mostly fine with his reflux around that age, he had 2 full NF's and for a while they were bigger than his day feeds. I know it's far from ideal, but I decided to stop worrying and just feed him when he needed it, until we could get a proper hang of things like reflux and food intolerances. I made sure to never feed more often than during the day, but I just offered whatever he needed because in his case, he just could not eat what he wanted during the day.

So I don't think this is helping you much hon, I'm sorry... it bugged the hell out of me, and it was a constant internal fight for me because I wanted him to STTN, I wanted to get some sleep, and I know that by giving him that feed it wouldn't help. So it's a lot about your gut feeling. If you think he's maxed out during his day, and that he wakes hungry at night, then I'd say feed him as much as he wants / needs, and then once things are better you can work on it.

FWIW I was always scared of it being habit and all but M just recently started STTN on his own accord... we solved the 'mystery' problem which is that he is slightly intolerant to his formula (although we thought he was doing just fine). Since then, he's been eating more solids during the day, less milk overall, and STTN most nights. So try not to worry about it too much Sara

[ZacsMumme]

Thanks Elise, I guess I know that it's what he needs but I also know it's so un EASY
This morning I gave him 150 mls and he drank it all.. Great.. Until 10 mins later when he vomited tons up and is still spitting up 3 hrs later so he can't shave more than 4 a feed really. I guess this means he needs the NF to have 'enough' milk in 24hrs for him not to be hungry.

So e is usually ~
6.30-7 120mls/4 oz (all bottles same amount)
10
1.30
5
If I try to feed at BT it's terrible. He's up for hours with wind and gas and gets OT
DF 10
NF somewhere between 1-3

Qs
He wakes at 5.30 ATM, I think it's digestive issues, sometimes a poop wakes him but we just resettle here rather than feed because it messes up his morning feed and meds. Do you think this is ok?
Should I for more at the NF. I think he can take 150 LOs at the DF/NF

[ENMS]

(((hugs))) I know it sucks

for the 5:30 AM wake, if you're able to resettle then I'd absolutely do it. What in the world is it with 5:30 in the morning and digestive issues ?!?!?! - M used to wake at that time too and it is just waaaay too early!

Your routine sounds a lot like M... there must be something at these hours because M would always wake up around these same times at night...

Did you end up trying the domperidone?

Also what do you make of why the BT feed is that horrible for him? He's fine for his other feeds but only that particular one is problematic for gas? When does he get his losec? Morning or evening?

I don't recall is he on a probiotic?

[Canadian_Mom]

Just had time for a quick skim read, so hope I didn't miss something...

DS2 at that age took his best feeds at night. It was the easiest feeds and the biggest feeds (he still would often do his screaming feeds during the day). His nighttime bottle was good (can't remember how much), and his one NF was around 6 oz (sometime more!!) that he would quickly drain. He actually did a few STTN at that age, but his feeds were so bad during the day as he attempted to make up for those missed feeds that STTN was actually not something that I wanted him to do!! So personally I would give him as much as he wants at that one NF so it is less that you have to try to do during the day.

Also totally agree with not feeding at 5:30! That would totally ruin our routine as well!

[ZacsMumme]

I think I remember with Zac the mod at the time on CRC (who was amazing btw) mentioned that they do all their digesting between 4-6 am or something like that to do with the tummy and bowel etc. this is why a lot of sensitive, refluxer, intolerant LOs struggle around that time of morning. Wish I could find that old post of mine

I was worried T was habitually waking YK every 3 hrs but sometimes he does 4 and he does always take a good feed. I never feed to sleep during the day. He hates it then

I have NO idea why he is so awful at BT!!!! Z was fine at BT. He seems to fuss a lot, get wind, gas, then we can't get it up and he cries like all colicky and then he takes age to settle and we have to APOP like mad. I've tried short to long As it makes no difference. I've tried to offer a little bit as a top up, or a full feed making sure he is hungry. I've tried doing it when he's sleepy but he's never sleepy unless he's suddenly OT - he just smiles at me then cries, then smiles through the tears poor thing. I have success feeding and winding before bath. Every time I re try a bottle near BT it backfires. . How long was Ms A to BT at 3-4 mths? I feel T needs a long one to shut off but insure he's OT by then

Thanks nadia. glad I'm not alone. I feel I'm doing this so the wrong way.

Elise. Dr wanted me to max out his losec dose first then on we'd we shave another appointment and an intro the Dom. I think he needs it. He's spitting up like 3 hrs after feed, when he's due for another!... That's not normal aye?

Just started probiotics. 1 x a day in his bottle. Currently at lunchtime?
Losec was split 10, 10 6.30am and 4.30pm ish or before that last bottle. But yesterday we changed to 1 full 20mg dose in am.

[ZacsMumme]

Btw kara feel free to move me back to CRC if we're getting OT

[*Kara*]

Not at all!  There are loads of reflux mommas on Bottle Feeding, you can stay put as this is a great source of info

I wonder if he would take to a cluster instead of the 5pm feed??  Like do 3 ozs at 445pm and 3 ozs at bedtime?

[ZacsMumme]

I've tried a cf or top up at BT. Even tried just 60 mls. It always results in a really unsettled period past BT and he gets sore and OT...honestly he's driving me batty right now!

[*Kara*]

He wouldn't be a baby if he wasn't making his momma crazy

[ENMS]

Very interesting about that 5AM thing, I knew there had to be something because it just happens so often with those LO's!

He's spitting up like 3 hrs after feed, when he's due for another!... That's not normal aye?

I don't think it's normal TBH - also does he feed relatively well first feed of the day and then it gets progressively worse? That's another indication that domperidone would be helpful.

M always needed a full A to BT, even with a short CN. If I did not keep that full A, it was hell. So closer to 4 months it was a good 2h, sometimes 2h15. M is a higher A type of baby though.

That BT feeding thing is really puzzling I find hopefully you solve the mystery soon

I hope the probiotics help him

More (((hugs))) Sara

[ZacsMumme]

Ok so I know I shouldn't be but I'm really concerned. He doesn't eat much at all!
Today has been 7 120mls, 10.15 120mls, 1.30 120mls, 5 90mls! I'm going to feed him another 120 (offer) when he stirs after BT - he's doing that revolting wake after 45 mins at BT so I'm going to try to treat it like a NF to see if a he will feed more and b resettle quicker!

Last night I had some success with feeding closer to BT. I gave him 90 mls before a CN then 90 after. Still not a lot.
He's 6.3kgs - surely he isn't getting enough? - his df/nf are usually 120 and 120

Great to know I'm not alone Elise, honestly I'm fretting over these mega A times. But when I try early it always fails big time!

Ps dr visit wed for the doperidone!

[*Kara*]

So, looks like an average of ~700mls / 24 hrs??

He's hovering around 24 ozs... not high by any means, but not so low that I would worry either   If he seems happy with it, no worries   If it makes you feel a bit better, Laura's LOs rarely if ever had more than 25ozs in a 24 hr day (and they both survived just fine)... and were both high centiles too!