3 hr NW! What do we do today?

[Erin M]

I know she's young, but she's always been ahead of the curve as far as A times.  She was 2 weeks overdue and completely skipped the sleepy newborn stage so I wouldn't be surprised if she is ready for the transition.

Then you might be there!  My dd1 was a week late and she generally made those transitions early too.  I really think their gestational age makes a big difference in these early milestones -- being born at 41 weeks (in her case) and being born at 37.5 weeks (in the case of my ds) made a difference for mine -- ds was in that sleepy newborn phase for what seemed like forever, while dd1 never really had one. 

I've been offering my breast quite frequently during the day to get more calories in her, but she's not really interested.

Frustrating.  Mine would never eat more during the day either, had to get it all in at night.  In your case, since she was late, it could be the 6 month growth spurt coming early too -- or just one that she's decided to have on her own schedule.  We must teach these LOs to read the books so we know what's going on at all times. 

I've come to the conclusion that what's happening is a perfect storm of teething, growth spurt, developmental stuff and a bit of a routine problem, does that sound right???

I think so.  I'd keep working on stretching your A times a bit, medicate for teething if necessary, and try to weather through the developmental stuff.  This too shall pass, right? 

[lily_layne]

Then you might be there!  My dd1 was a week late and she generally made those transitions early too.  I really think their gestational age makes a big difference in these early milestones -- being born at 41 weeks (in her case) and being born at 37.5 weeks (in the case of my ds) made a difference for mine -- ds was in that sleepy newborn phase for what seemed like forever, while dd1 never really had one. 

I agree about gestational age making a difference.  I'm sure DD is ready for the transition.


Last night was much better.  Our day and night was:
7:30 - I think she was awake and quiet - I didn't go in
Get up and E: 8:00
S: 9:15-10:45 - She went to sleep on her own - no paci or patting
A and E: 10:50-2:10
S: 2:10 - 3:45 - IS again (First time she's gone to sleep on her own twice in one day!)
A and E: 3:50-5:50
S: 5:50-6:10 - She fought this one a bit - I rocked her
A and E: 6:10-8:20
S: 8:20
NW: 10:30 (paci and quick pat), 12:00 (fed and asleep by 12:30), I think she fussed a bit sometime after but she went back to sleep quickly
WU: 7

I think the amount of daytime sleep was better yesterday because she was not wanting to play in the MOTN.  It's the amount of A time that I'm not sure about.  I know I just need to do some tweaking with the catnap and possibly A times because I think she's a bit OT by BT.  Before the bad nights started a 20 min catnap and 1h45-1h55 before bed was perfect (she went to sleep fairly quickly and there were no OT wake-ups) but then she started fighting BT.  I'm not sure how much A time to do before BT now.  I'm also not sure if I should stretch her other A times a bit yet because of the IS.  I'm thinking they're pretty right on if she's going to sleep independently (but yesterday may have been a lucky day - we'll see how today goes . 

Do you have any recommendations for changes to our routine?

[Erin M]

Falling asleep independently is such a nice thing!  That being said, I would think that you actually need some more A time.  I noticed that her first A time is the shortest -- has she always been one who needs a shorter first A time (as some babies are just like that).  Her naps are pretty good, but I'm almost thinking that if you pushed her A time a little bit and got a longer nap then you'd end up running out of time for the cat nap.  With her fighting it so hard, it would probably be easier without it anyway -- and it may be that you'll have a few days without a cat nap and one with while you're transitioning.  At any rate, I'd push slowly, maybe just by 10 minutes the first day.  FWIW, I could always get mine to fall asleep relatively easily when they were UT, as well as when I got their A time right.  I think with ds I would put him down undertired on purpose sometimes as I knew he'd actually fall asleep without me (paid for it later in the day though...).  I feel like I'm rambling...anyway, I think you need some more A time, though not a ton.  It sounds like you're making some good progress overall though!

[lily_layne]

Sorry - I just reread my post and realized that I put the wrong time for her am nap. It was at 10:15-11:45 making her am and pm A time the same which is what we usually do.

Her naps are pretty good, but I'm almost thinking that if you pushed her A time a little bit and got a longer nap then you'd end up running out of time for the cat nap.

That was my plan and then I wasn't sure if I should just stick with where I'm at because of the IS thing.  Although she hasn't done it much, DD only falls asleep on her own if the A time is exactly right, if I put her down UT she just screams bloody murder! That said, we usually do get a longer nap if I stretch her A time and help her to sleep.  However, I'm willing to stretch the A times and help her get to sleep if necessary just so we can get this transition over with or do you think I'd ruin a good thing with the IS if I did that?  What do you think would be a good total A time - 2 h 30 or more than that?

No real improvement last night.  She took forever to settle at BT with lots of whimpering and movement and then was up at 10:30 (I fed her hoping to eliminate the midnight waking), cried on and off between 12 and 1 and then fed (she nursed for a looong time - I'm sure she was comfort nursing), and cried and self-settled at 4:30 and 6:30.  She was doing a lot of whimpering and writhing as she nursed and she rarely nurses for so long so I'm beginning to suspect some discomfort.  Could it be discomfort or pain waking her this frequently?  The wake times have been the same almost every night - how many nights does it take before we get into habit waking territory?

[Erin M]

That said, we usually do get a longer nap if I stretch her A time and help her to sleep.  However, I'm willing to stretch the A times and help her get to sleep if necessary just so we can get this transition over with or do you think I'd ruin a good thing with the IS if I did that? 

I *think* at this point if you stretch very slowly and don't push it, she should still go down independently.  Even trying to lengthen her A times by just 5 minutes or so every 2-3 days, keeping things really low key will get you there.  When I stretched A time with my ds (he was always my hardest to stretch with), we'd end his A time up in his room with the lights already low and we'd just look at books or play with some quiet toys on the floor. 

She was doing a lot of whimpering and writhing as she nursed and she rarely nurses for so long so I'm beginning to suspect some discomfort.  Could it be discomfort or pain waking her this frequently?

It really could be -- she could have quite a few teeth moving at once underneath the gums (sometimes harder for them than when they actually pop through!) -- the fact that she's falling asleep independently at some points in the day right now is a good sign -- I think your evenings are off because she probably needs to lose the cat nap -- she's also waking and putting herself back to sleep at some points in the night which is another good sign.  Not sure how you feel about teething meds (forgive me if we've already talked about it, I get threads mixed up sometimes!) but you could try them one night to see if it makes a difference. 

[lily_layne]

This too shall pass, right? 

Thanks for the reminder!  That phrase has pretty much become my mantra - I repeat it while sitting with DD in the middle night and it really helps keep me patient.

After a very late BT (I wanted to rest so I put DH in charge - he opted for an extra long A time hoping to tire her out - he ended up with a 30 min OT nap from 8:30-9 and then a baby who wanted to play!) we had a much better night.  There was some insane screaming at midnight but DH settled her in minutes just by patting and we didn't hear from her again until morning!  Yay for progress!

Thanks for the tips on stretching A time slowly and ending in her room.  I think that will work well for DD and will hopefully help us get rid of the catnap in the near future.  When we run out of time for the CN but it's still too long until BT, how much A time do you recommend before EBT?

Not sure how you feel about teething meds (forgive me if we've already talked about it, I get threads mixed up sometimes!) but you could try them one night to see if it makes a difference. 

We have tried Advil but it didn't seem to help.  I bought some Camilia homeopathic drops so we'll give them a shot.

[Erin M]

Since you're hovering near 3 hours on A time, I'd try to stick with that and not try to lengthen it too much -- you'd be ok aiming for a 12.5/13 hour night right now if she's only giving you two nap, so with your wake up time at 7/7:30 you can aim for 6/6:30.

[lily_layne]

We're only at 2h10/2h20 A time so we've got a ways to go until 3 h.  I wish we were there already - this transition is difficult  

The NWs are a lot better.  Last night there was only 1 hunger waking and I put her down awake and she put herself to sleep which made for one happy mama.

Thank you so much for helping me through this NW nightmare!  I am very grateful for your advice and support.

[Erin M]

Great!  (Though sorry for getting the A times mixed up!)
So glad things are getting better!