Author Topic: 25-45 min naps after BM issues  (Read 1449 times)

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Offline Mrsblade

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25-45 min naps after BM issues
« on: January 21, 2013, 01:48:48 am »
Hello, I am totally new to this forum. Not totally I guess, I have been reading the nap boards and FAQs for the last 3 days, while I go crazy trying to get my DS to nap. I am losing my mind. I need help or just reassurance that this shush pat will work eventually.

I go into my previous feeding issues below because they may be relevant to the napping issues.
My DS is 10 weeks old and was a great sleeper and was sleeping 5ish hours at night at 5 weeks. Naps were great too. I would put him down drowsy and most of the time he would just go to sleep. Sometimes he needed to be settled once or twice before dropping off to a full 1.5 -2 hour nap. During this time he was getting a mix of breast, EBM and formula due to my breast feeding issues. (very inverted nipples)

My DS is now EBF. I think, partly this is where my problems began. I was taking Domperidone to keep my milk up when I was unable to touch my nipples. After a week or two on Dom. I had lots of milk but noticed it seemed like my LO wanted to eat constantly, over an hour to feed then 45 mins later he wanted to eat again and barfed it up constantly. I had been doing EASY loosely. In the correct order but hard with BF issues. Finally, got back to the Lactation Consultant after Christmas and she saw how much he brought up when eating and how engorged I was. She told me I had way too much milk, and he just wanted to keep eating because he never felt satisfied I and should not be painfully engorged by every feed. She said he never felt full because he was not getting to the hind milk. She also said that was why he pooped so much and it was green and runny mucus. I think his constant need to eat, at short intervals through this 3 weeks, has totally messed him up. That is around when the 45 minute naps started because he was hungry. I had been keeping up the routine in the EASY order with a few extra feeds, while my milk regulated, because my LO was hungry while I was coming off the Domperidone.

I have been off the Dom. for nearly 2 weeks and alternate breasts at each feed, exclusively breast feed to regulate my milk to what he needs. I think it is sorted, so I am on EASY in earnest now.

One breast is still a bit too full, and the overeating and large amounts of food coming back up are still an issue. I have to change his sleeper after every feed because it is soaked in barfed up milk. But feeds take less than a half hour instead of 1.5hours. He is full and is putting on weight just fine. Even when I had too much milk he was putting on nearly an oz a day.

He is a big, long boy. 12lbs 8oz at 9weeks.

Now he is an OT monster. Only napping 25-45 minutes. Sometimes (rare)I can shush pat to sleep another 25-45 minutes after a pick up and settle. It may have nothing to do with the milk issues I had could just be the 45 minute trap.  Mostly he cries when he wakes and I need to pick him up to settle him, over the shoulder shush in the ear, with pat till drowsy then put down, and shush pat till sleeping. I spent all naps yesterday, investigating (sitting in his room and shush pat or just hand on chest watching to see what happens or to see if it makes a difference if I pat through the 20 or 45 minute mark). The times he will wake up, being there, shushing with my hand on his chest on one over (not touching) his eyes, it did nothing. He cried I picked him up, and settled over again. If he becomes too agitated (cries the minute I try to put him in the crib) or after 20 mins of shush pat (in crib) he is still fidgeting like crazy and darting his eyes around trying to look past my hand and not settled we get up leave the bed room for a change and to reset things. Then we do the wind down routine again. Swaddle, quite story, shush over shoulder and put down drowsy. I do occasionally put him down a bit late because BAM he is out in two shushs. He still wakes up 20-45 mins later.

I started writing this last night, today I had some progress. I shush pat in crib he was nearly crying and quite agitated and I calmed him down without picking him up and got him to sleep, only for a few minutes but I saw progress!

Nights are pretty good, detailed in shedule.(starting to unravel I think due to OT)
Props – paci, sleep sheep with rain sounds for white noise.
Sleeps in crib ( only the last 5 days) the nap problems were evident prior to the move from the bassinet to the crib. The NW is newish, but that is for another board.

Daily Schedule 3 hour cycle
Wake up and
E 7 - 7:30ish, 15-20 mins lots of spitting up.
A 30 minutes (tired cues, I have shortened it to this two days ago) lying on playmat under toys dangling for about 10 mins then chat with me in his bouncy chair or  settle in swing. Just changed this today to sitting in my lap and chatting, to stop over stimulating  him in the morning.
S when looks tired or just before. 45 minutes of sleep, or less,  change of sleeper when diaper change. I try until next cycle in this case 10am. Put down routine, swaddle, story, shush pat with face in my neck, put down drowsy.
E 10 am 15-20 mins lots of spitting up.
A looks tired quickly about 30 mins. Already tired from missing last nap. some tummy time, songs with me sitting in bouncy chair.
S about 20-30 mins. Shush pat, pick up Shush pat if crying. Put down routine, swaddle, story, shush pat with face in my neck, put down drowsy.
E 1pm 15-20 mins lots of spitting up
A already OT, low key activity, look for cues about 30-45 mins
S same as before
E 4pm 15-20 mins lots of spitting up
A sit with Mom swing to settle, look for cues(tired eyes and frantic looking) about 30-45 mins
S Same same, getting harder to settle and visibly OT ( I do not generally cat nap because he needs the sleep if I can settle him for a bit)

E 7pm 15-20 mins lots of spitting up
A Bathtime, he likes it. A quick little baby massage.
S goes down best at this nap/bedtime usually stays out till dream feed at 11. Same routine (Swaddle, story, Shush pat with face in my neck put down drowsy)
E 11pm, he used to be impossible to feed at  this time I could not dream feed or wake up. Now he wants to eat and is ready and wakes up.
3 or 4am, ( he eats like a crazy starving little piggy, and take a full feed.   sometimes takes an hour because if I let him over eat he barfs all over and I need to change and settle him. He is just starting to not sleep well and need settling throughout the night. He is new to his crib and room, could be from being OT?
 
There is a wet diaper at every feeding except the night time, I do not change him at 11 and only sometimes at 4.  there are 3-4 BMs a day.
I hope I have put down everything I am supposed to.
I noticed today when I spent each nap in his room, that he jolts a lot. When it starts it happens over and over again, but like I said above I think I made progress today.
So am I just having typical 20-45 minute nap issues? Will the pat shush eventually help me get him through the 25 minute mark? Is there some glaring issue that anyone sees? Is he perhaps not full enough? Do they just change and stop sleeping?I am tired and rambling and may not be making sense. I need some support, it feels lonely. Have great husband, however we live on a big farm and he works full time. Lots of work and I am doing the sleep schedule/training. I feel very alone.
Please help.
Chrystal


Offline Aishi

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Re: 25-45 min naps after BM issues
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2013, 09:46:54 am »
(((Hugs))) hon. i know its hard but you will get through this and so will your lo. youre not alone- theres a whole army of bws here to help :)

20 min naps are discomfort. I'm a bit concerned about all the spitting up. Does lo have reflux? I don't have Bf experience so ill get more eyes on this for you.

Average a times at this age are 1h20 mi. so 30 min for first a is too short. First job would be to increase that in 5-10 increments and push through the OT. But only if discomfort isn't an issue so that needs tackling first...

Is my baby ready to increase his ‘A’ time? (incl. 'A' times for younger babies)

Don't worry well come up with a plan :)

Here's some extra reading to help teach independant sleep (again only works if lo not in pain)

Teaching Sleep to Newborns and Young Infants
What does a good wind down consist of (Includes 4S ritual)
aishi :)

Offline becj86

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Re: 25-45 min naps after BM issues
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2013, 10:05:02 am »
Hi honey :)

Oversupply (too much milk) and overactive letdown (milk squirts really fast/far) are two pretty difficult things to deal with when bub is tiny - sounds like you've at least one if not both. BTDT, still BFing at 21 months, so it can be done.

Here's some info: http://kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/supply-worries/fast-letdown/; http://www.llli.org/faq/oversupply.html

How are the poos now? Back to normal/still green?

To be perfectly honest with you, you can get away with some accidental parenting to get LO to sleep at this age and get him onto a good routine while you get your BFing issues sorted and sleep train around 3.5-4 months. I sleep trained DS in a couple of days - all that was changing was that he was sleeping in his cot instead of on me, same time, etc. just not same place (but still a familiar place as he'd slept in the cot every night).

3 or 4am, ( he eats like a crazy starving little piggy, and take a full feed.   sometimes takes an hour because if I let him over eat he barfs all over and I need to change and settle him. He is just starting to not sleep well and need settling throughout the night. He is new to his crib and room, could be from being OT?
It could be, but my money is on the air he's gulping down, both because he's hungry and because you've LOTS of milk at that time as you've been resting and that's when your supply is highest.

20min naps - often pain is the cause and for us, it was gas pain til we got my supply under control and found a feeding position that meant DS could cope with my letdown.

Offline Mrsblade

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Re: 25-45 min naps after BM issues
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2013, 14:00:23 pm »
Thank you for the responses. I think it is still milk related now. I read some if the supplied material. I definitely have too much milk in one breast.  And still have watery stool and at least one green one a day. I am going to try to reduce the milk in that breast  by skipping a feed on it. I am going to go to dr and get him weighed he has not been weighed since he I started EBF. And I read in BW this morn about pain cues like lifting up legs and flailing when trying to sleep. He also ( early this morn) would go to sleep with shh pat then jerk around lift legs flail, as much as he can swaddled. This went on for 40 minutes. No crying, but settle jerk settle jerk over and over. This is what is keeping him from sleeping. Sound like pain? Or just rough sleeper.


Thank you again

Offline Mrsblade

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Re: 25-45 min naps after BM issues
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2013, 14:02:00 pm »
Oh and I am also going to increase A time and modify nap routine. Here we go!

Offline Aishi

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Re: 25-45 min naps after BM issues
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2013, 19:23:27 pm »
it does sound like pain to me :( I would wait till you've seen the doc before doing any sleep training and in the meantime just apop naps to get some sleep into lo to minimise OT. I really hope doc has some answers for you! x
aishi :)

Offline Mrsblade

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Re: 25-45 min naps after BM issues
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2013, 01:58:26 am »
Hi again, well after much crying and thinking and speaking to the lactation consultant I have stopped breast feeding :'(. I am heart broken, but I cannot take anymore milk issues. I have had a horrible time with it. It has consumed my life. From Raynauds to inverted nipples, not enough milk to way too much milk. Still having too much milk, and the thought of reducing my milk again and not knowing if I have enough or whatever I am at the end of my rope with it. I tried so hard to breast feed, but this seals it. I do not think it will solve it 100% but I think it will help. A few days on formula and some regular non mucusy poops and I will work on the sleep again. The pain he is in is definitely because of too much milk. I read one of the links sent to me by becj86 and it is bang on how he eats, still being drown in milk and choking and super stressed and wide eyed, with his little fists balled up like he is going to punch me in the boob, and tonnes of spitting up, and still has watery mucusy poops and at least one a day is green.

I am so happy to have the help, and advice I received here. It is so hard when you just don't know. I was so hell bent on breast feeding that I thought that because there was not tonnes and tonnes of milk anymore it was not a feeding issue.  At least when I was super engorged at every feed I was feeding him pumped milk 2-3 times a day so he got some well balanced milk every night.

Thank you so much.

Mrsblade

Thank you, and I will post my progress. If the heavy spit up and pain does not get better in a day or two I will call the doc.

Offline becj86

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Re: 25-45 min naps after BM issues
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2013, 10:29:09 am »
Big hugs xx Its a tough decision to come to. I hope your decision allows you to relax and enjoy your baby more. Give him a good 3-4 days for the mucous/green poos to stop, it could take up to a week, in my experience. I presume you've read about and probably tried block feeding and reclining.

Offline Mrsblade

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Re: 25-45 min naps after BM issues
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2013, 12:59:41 pm »
Hi. It was a tough decision. It is really important to me and I worked super hard to get this far. You are right about relaxing and enjoying my little munchkin. I did read about reclining to ease the flow, and I am not sure what block feeding is. I am just so done. Between the emergency c section recovery and breast feeding I have been constantly in pain. i just need a small break. I still think he has some small reflux issue because he is still spitting up lots but a little less and now I can monitor his over eating. Thank you for the support and letting me know the time line for the poops and tummy to settle down. Great to get the feedback.

Mrsblade  :)

Offline Mrsblade

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Re: 25-45 min naps after BM issues
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2013, 02:07:30 am »
Hello Baby Whisperers,
Here I am again, I am not sure if I should be posting on a different board now that my issues are shall we say changing. Please let me know.

I have stopped breast feeding and I am now trying to bottle feed my DS with the same formula he was given in the hospital. We were there for a few days as I had an emergency C, and I couldn’t get a latch. 
I took him to the Dr. because of all the spitting up. He would only take 4oz one morning and I am sure he spit it all back up. The Dr. (replacement, mine is on mat leave) said she is not worried because he has not lost weight, and she emailed me some info on reflux and sent me on my way. She said I can come get him weighed whenever I want. So we are doing our best to keep him comfortable as we transition to formula. She said it could take 2 weeks for him to adjust to the formula. He cries through nearly every feeding and it is obviously hard on him, he hates to be burped (not new)and cries as soon as the bottle comes out. I am using an Advent No# 1 nipple. He swallows lots of air. I burp after nearly each ounce. I can hear the air in his stomach, when he is swallowing and sometimes when I am putting him down. I think the gas in his stomach is keeping him awake and in pain. I have tried the cummerbund to ease stomach pain.  It did not make a difference. I tried elevating the head of the mattress to ease any acid pain, it made no difference to his sleep pattern.
Are there any strategies to make the feeding and burping less stressful and less gas inducing? Any advice?
Oh and I feel stupid, I guess I was block feeding to reduce my milk I just did not know what it was called. The lactation consultant had told me to do it. Now of course I regret letting my milk go and giving up on the breast feeding, but that is that and I have to do the best I can now with formula.

Mrsblade

Offline Mrsblade

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Re: 25-45 min naps after BM issues
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2013, 02:08:16 am »
And not Advent, Avent. So tired.

Offline becj86

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Re: 25-45 min naps after BM issues
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2013, 04:20:44 am »
Oh honey, sorry its not getting better :(

Here's a load of info:
Reflux 101 - General reflux information
tips for calming my refluxing LO
Check this board out for reflux BTDT, other issues with similar symptoms, cows milk protein/soy protein intolerance info, etc. There's a wealth of information and the lovely ladies who've been through it all with their LO's are more than happy to help out :)

Given you very recently stopped feeding and had an oversupply, relactation could be possible, though you would have to eliminate dairy/soy from your diet if your LO is having intolerance issues. Relactation: I stopped nursing, but regret my decision. Can I start again?

TBH, I used Avent with No. 1 teat and DS did ok with that. I've heard good things about variable flow teats...

Offline Mrsblade

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Re: 25-45 min naps after BM issues
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2013, 23:20:03 pm »
Thank you thank you.
Your support is a life saver. I have been reading the links you sent and more forum boards. I feel so much less alone and lucky, because i have been reading about bad reflux.  I am pretty lucky. I am doing some apop as suggested to get through naps while we sort it out.
Btw happy Australia Day. And thank you.

Offline *Kara*

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Re: 25-45 min naps after BM issues
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2013, 00:10:19 am »
Hugs hun... if you do want to go back to breastfeeding, you certainly can hun.  Call your local LLL leader - he or she will be able to help.