school run / set naps for 11 mo old

[*Becky*]

Tbh it might be best to wait until you are back from your trip before you start trying to fix the routine too much - what do you think?

[delancepants]

Well potentially, yes, but in reality there are two issues, one being that I'll have to start the school run as soon as I get a new maid, although that may not be until I get back from holiday.  The more important thing is that the current routine isn't working, as he keeps waking earlier and earlier, anything from 4am, and he's sleeping less than 11 hours at night, at best 10 or 10.5, and he wakes up during the night too, several times.  DH and I are cracking up from lack of sleep.

[*Becky*]

ok can you post the last 2 days. Is he teething at all?

[delancepants]

I don't know if he's teething.  I've been able to see the teeth under the gums for weeks but I don't know at what point he'll start suffering with it. He pretty much always has a runny nose and without him being in a good routine it's hard to tell what's going on.  For weeks now he's just been so cranky, crying loads, which I'm sure is down to the disturbed sleep, so it's impossible to tell if there's been a deterioration due to him starting teething.  also I really hate the idea of medicating just in case.  So I don't know what to do about that one.

Here's the last two days. Although I don't know if it'll be much use.  The first day I thought we were headed for set naps, so that's what I was trying to do, then after o got your email yesterday I APOPed a bit to try and get him caught up before we start something else.

7.00 wake
10-10.45 nap APOP
2.45-3.30 nap
7.45 bedtime. He woke at 3.50, slept again from 4-4.15, again from 4.25-4.35 and 4.50-5.30

9.45-10.15 nap, but he was so exhausted I let him fall asleep on the boob and couldn't wake him up till 10.45 and even that was a struggle.
2.30-3.40 nap APOP and extended with apop to 4.00
8.00 bedtime, NW at 1.30 but straight back to sleep until 5.20am

[*Becky*]

ok, that is your call but personally I would try meds as if they do work then you know and this is the age for molars which can really disrupt things.

I think we need to shorten the day as he is doing long days with early starts....so to confirm the last 2 days he has been up about 5.20/30am??
I think his second A time is really long - is that because he is fighting the nap and that is when he falls asleep or that is when you PD?

If he is up at 5.30am you really want him asleep for the night at 6.30pm latest and atm I think he is OT so let's not try and shorten any naps but just focus on getting him caught up. This is an idea of what you could try.

A - 5.30am (at this time DD often wakes but I either leave her to it or if she is being very loud I lie with her in the dark so we do not start the day until 6am - might be worth trying as he may go back to sleep)
Nap 1 - 9-10.30am (ideally)
Nap 2 - 2.30 - 3.30pm
BT - 6.30pm

Now that is just an idea, he is at the age when fitting in 2 good naps and a decent BT is getting hard so in reality one of the naps WILL be shorter but let's try and get as much into him as poss. You def need to shorten the day somehow.

If you need to APOP one of the naps then that is your call but I would def have the longer nap in his cot.

what do you think?

[delancepants]

Yea 5.30 ish starts the last couple of days. 

Yea I know second a was long, I was just scared to put him down too early because his whole day has been slipping earlier so badly, we've had some 4am starts here lately (complete with NWs at 2/3am) and its just completely freaked me out.  I was hoping to try and shift his am wake up time but obviously it didn't work.

Phew a plan, thank you!  ideally though id like the long nap in the afternoon...what timing would you suggest for short am long pm nap?.  I think his a time is prob around 4h or just over (4h worked briefly a couple of weeks ago).  And I don't think he'll manage an hour nap plus 1.5...I think 45 mins and 1.5 is prob more realistic.  IAPOPed his nap this afternoon and I might apop in the morning to get his wake up time a little later, depending on the timings you suggest.

[*Becky*]

ok no problem.
A - 5.30am
Nap - 9-9.45am
Nap -1.15pm (ish) (will have to experiment with this a little)
BT - 6.30pm

[delancepants]

Fantastic, thank you, I'll give it a go and check back in soon.  Gonna stay in this weekend to give it a good go.

[delancepants]

Ok so yesterday was pretty much what I expected.  Two 45 min naps (I haven't yet figured out if it's OT or UT for him although I suspect it can be either depending on the situation), then restless evening, because I think he was a little UT by bedtime, then 10h15 overnight...

7.00 wake (I APOPed in the morning to get him waking later, so he had 11h sleep that night)
10.25-11.10 nap
2.40-3.25 nap, didn't bother trying to extend as I wasn't sure if he was OT or UT)
7.05 bedtime, he woke at 10 ish, 11.30 and 1.30 but went straight back to sleep each time. 
This morning he woke at 4.30 and cried foe a few mins then went back to sleep till 5.20.  He was trying to settle for a few mins but then did a poo.  I changed him and fed him but no sign of going back to sleep, even with his 40 odd minute feed.

[delancepants]

(following on from above)

Today we had

5.20 wake
9.05 - 10.20 nap (when he didn't wake I thought I'd let him sleep to see how long he'd go on his own (in the hopes it would provide useful info for us)
1.45-2.20 nap, then he was so cranky I let him fall asleep on the boob till 2.45

So I don't know if that provides any more useful info or not...

[delancepants]

(following on from above)

Last night we had

6.45 bedtime, then he woke at 10 and 2 but went straight back to sleep, then he woke at 3.40 and was trying to settle himself on and off till 4.30. Then he woke at 5.10 for the day.

Today we had

9.05 - 10.10 nap
1.25-2.05 nap

[*Becky*]

ok well now I wonder if you need to cap one of those naps further in order to get a decent one and a good night. What do you think?

When did he go from 3-2 naps and when did all this short napping start?

Have you tried the meds at night yet to see if they are part of the issue?

[delancepants]

I have been wondering if maybe he's closer to1 nap than I thought but tbh I'm lost.  I find it so hard to  tell if he's OT or UT, I really don't know.  he went from 3-2 naps at 6 mo but I think I pushed him a little too early.  Short naps have always been an issue, I thought it was because I never had him in a hood routine, but now I think OS has been a factor too.  The night time waking started around 10 mo and coincided with me doing the school run.  I think the NW started before the school run, but perhaps it was due to OS from sources other than the school run, I can't be sure.  The days slipping earlier and earlier have been an issue since I stopped apoping a month ago when he was 10 mo.

I haven't tried meds.  The teeth under the gum look like they won't break through for at least another 4-6 weeks.  The last few times he's only suffered disturbed sleep in the 2-3 weeks before the teeth broke through.  And then the sleep disturbance started early in the evening, soon after he went to sleep, which I'm not getting at the moment.  My issue with meds is that calpol is a sedative...so if I give it, he'll sleep better.  It doesn't necessarily mean that he was in pain without it, it could simply be due to the sedative effect.  Then what happens?  I end up potentially dosing him up for several weeks before he even starts teething, then of course he'll need it when he's really teething, so it could go on for a month or more...I'm not a fan of medication unless it's absolutely warranted, and right now, I'm not convinced.  I could try homeopathy for a few days, id have no objection there.

[delancepants]

(following on from above)

Well last noight was better.  Some wakings but not for any great length of time.  And the day didn't slip earlier, he woke at the same time as yesterday morning!

6.00 bedtime. Wakings at 11, 12 and 1, but he went straight back to sleep.  At 4 he woke only for 15 mins then woke at 5.10

But then today didn't work out so well...

9.05 - 9.40 nap, didn't try to extend, but he did seem quite tired afterwards and he wanted to go back to sleep
12.40-1.25 nap, he hardly cried afterwards and although he seemed sleepy he wasn't tired enough to go back to sleep on the boob.

[*Becky*]

ok good. Well he should be more rested with an earlier BT. Having said that the first A is long if he is up at 5am.
I think it would be best to decide which nap to consistently try and extend and which nap to keep at 45 mins. That way you will hopefully have some regularity.