Set naps and early wakings

[My little Liam]

Hi guys! We have been doing set naps here too and have been having EW problems also.

Our naps are at 10 and 230 although he has been falling asleep at 245 lately. His BT is at 715. He always wakes around 600 though. When were going by A times he needed 4 hrs in the morning so I am thinking his body clock won't let him sleep any later. I can live with at I guess, although I am inking of slowing moving naps an hour later so we get a 7 am wake up.
The last few night we have been getting EW around 0430. He tosses and turns trying to fall back asleep and chats and babbles a bit too. He usually falls asleep around 530 but then wakes for the day around 0600. Do you think the second nap time is too early? Can a second nap cause early wakings?

[scruffymax]

My LO usually wakes around 6-6:30am too but is usually happy to play in the cot for a while so it doesn't feel so early :-)  If your LO isn't happy to play in the cot on waking I think the advice is to give them time to play in the cot during the day, with you in the room if need be to start with and then hopefully when you're not in the room, so they associate the cot as somewhere safe where they can be on their own happily.

I've only heard of the am nap being associated with EW if it's too early in the day, but I don't think 9:30am or 10 would be considered to early at this age.  There is a school of thought that an earlier BT (eg 30min earlier) can actually help LO to sleep in longer in the morning... may be worth trying...  I think if your LO is putting himself back to sleep when he wakes at 4:30am that is fabulous and I would try not to worry about it!  I would also just try to make sure there's nothing waking him at that time that you can prevent eg noises, light, being cold.

[My little Liam]

The is not putting himself back to sleep... I have to go in repeatedly and PD because he becomes worked up and frustrated that he can't fall back asleep...

[jessmum46]

How long is he napping at those set times?  I agree BT may need adjusting but difficult to say without knowing how long naps typically are.

[My little Liam]

They are both usually 1hr30.

[jessmum46]

At this age I don't think you can expect much more than a 10.5/11h night with 3h day sleep.  If it were me I would keep the set times if they are working well for you, but start to cap the afternoon nap a bit shorter and keep BT the same.  So if he is not falling asleep until 2.45 then aim for nap 2 to be 2.45-4pm with BT 7.15 and hold that for a few days.  You may need to cut that second nap further - by this age we were doing one nap of 1h15-30 and one short 30-40 min nap.

[My little Liam]

Ok ill give that a try. He wont get OT at BT with such a long A?

[jessmum46]

Personally I don't think that's a long A time for a nearly ten month old.  But if you're worried you could just try shaving 5 mins at a time off the nap every 2-3 days to make it a more gradual process. 

[My little Liam]

Ok we'll yesterday he only fell asleep for pm nap at 1500.  I capped the nap at an hour and put him to bed at 1915. He played and didn't want to sleep. He only fell asleep at 1940, but woke at 2230 screaming....
He slept well until 0500 and then I had to apop and he slept on me in the rocking chair.
I guess I need to cap the nap even more, right? If I cap it at 30 min, so lets say 1500-1530, when should BT be? If he cries out in the first part of the night because he is OT, will that go away in a few days once he gets used to the new routine?

[jessmum46]

I wouldn't jump straight from an hour capped nap to 30 mins.  It may be that 19.15 was too late rather than too early for BT.  I would stick with an hour's pm nap and try maybe 3h A afterwards instead of 3h15.  If that's really not working and you are sure UT after a few days, then cap the pm nap to 45 mins and try BT 2.5-3h later.  Its common to get to a point of around 4h A, long nap, 4h A, 30 min CN, 2h A eventually but jumping to so short a nap so quickly will likely cause OT.  Remember whatever you do you need to do it for a few days before adjusting again

[My little Liam]

Ok, what about if some days he wants to take a 2hr morning nap? Do I need to cap it at 1hr30 or can I let him sleep as long as he likes? If I do let him sleep how do we do the second nap?

[jessmum46]

We never had that problem!  A 2h am nap is fine, it may mean you need to cap the second nap shorter to stop the day getting too long.  A rough rule (may be different for your LO) is around 2h A after a 30 min nap, 2.5 after a 45 min nap.

[My little Liam]

Ok great!
So once I get to a point of a 4hr A for both naps that means we will have 12hr nights? My Lo has never slept 12hrs at night!

[My little Liam]

Oh, one more question...
If I need to cap the pm nap at 45 min for example, should I push the pm nap later? Otherwise our day is only approx. 12 hours. Like I said I don't think my LO has ever slept so much at night... It i push the pm nap later and he short naps because of an OT nap is that bad? Does it make a difference?

[jessmum46]

I wouldn't push it later if he will take it earlier - because you are capping its actually ideal to have a slightly UT nap anyway so LO isn't so grumpy about being woken. He may not ever do 12h nights - some don't.  You may have to play around with A time a little and be prepared for a long day and short night in the run up to the 2-1.