EASY QUESTION REGARDING 11 WEEK OLD

[heatherc4]

hello,
I have a question about putting my 11 week old DS2 on EASY... I read that at this age, his A time should be about 1 hour 30 minutes. If his average nap ranges from 45 minutes to 1 hour 30 minutes, with the last being 45 minutes, would an ideal day be like this? (on a 9-9 day)

9-1030 awake
1030-1115 nap
1115-1245 awake
1245-215 nap
215-345 awake
345-515 nap
515-630 awake
630-715 nap
715-900 awake (bath/wind down)
9pm bed

Is 4 naps not too much for him? wont this cause him to be either UT or start to confuse days and nights? At what point should I wake him from his naps if at all? Afterall, one variation from the nap schedule would throw the entire schedule out the window... if that is the case, do you then adjust the bedtime?
At this point, we are pretty far away from the above schedule... DS2 does not seem to want to conform to any type of schedule, plus with a 20 month old running around, sometimes its hard for me to conform to a schedule as well....
Also, the above schedule leaves his last A time right before bed as 1 hour 45 minutes... I get that this is long, but how can I adjust otherwise?
We are pretty set on the 9-9 schedule as my DS1 goes down at 8... we tried having DS2 on an earlier schedule (7-7) but the kids bathroom is right next to the nursery and bath time for my DS1 was waking up DS2... how do you tell a 20 month old not to have fun in the tub??
We are having a heck of a time getting DS2 to sleep well at night (consistently wakes after 2 hours) and I am pretty sure that a lot has to do with him being OT... do we need to get naps on track first? will that help sort out the nights? or is it vice versa?
ugh. I am so tired and would just love some down time...

[Ima shel Alon]

Afterall, one variation from the nap schedule would throw the entire schedule out the window...

EASY is not a schedule, it's a routine, so every day will look a bit different.
It's hard for me to refer to the EASY that you posted, because the naps in theory should be longer than 45min with the right EASY. In case you are getting a short nap you can decrease the next A by 10-15min, even though some babies need a full A time even after a short nap, it's just something you'd need to try out.
In case he is having a good nap I wouldn't let him nap more than 2h so it doesn't steal from his night sleep.
4 naps in theory is too much but of course you need to have a 4th naps if all naps were short and there is a too long stretch before BT, to prevent him from going to bed OT.
Maybe this can help you get an idea how other babies have it at the same age: chronological EASY samples, 0-3 months
Sleep is all interconnected, but if there is something to tackle first I would say it's naps. He probably goes to bed right now OT and wakes up in the first half of the night because of that. Are you feeding him then? Has it been 3h from the last feed? I am just thinking that maybe he is hungry.
How does the rest of the night look like?
I see that you have a thread on the Reflux board, is it under control now? Because Reflux can mess up with sleep big time.

[heatherc4]

Hi,
I do have the post on the reflux board, but not sure if that's actually his issue as we have not been able to get in to see the doctor yet.
After the dream feed, he will usually sleep only another two hours before waking up and he will usually take a full bottle (3.5-4oz of formula) on occasion he will sleep longer after the dream feed... 2 nights ago he slept 5 hours after the dream feed (for a total of an 8 hour stretch) and last night he slept 4 hours past the dream feed (for a total of a 6 hour stretch). Once he wakes that first time, I would say on average he wakes every two hours, but the again the night before last (with the 8 hour stretch) he only woke once at 4, and last night (with the 6 hour stretch) he only woke twice at 3 and 6.
There seems to be no consistency with him regardless of how consistent I am during the day. I would like to think we are getting there, since up until 3 nights ago, the longest he was getting was 2 hours with about 5 wakings during the night.
I'm not 100% sold on the idea that he has reflux. I do acknowledge that he has some of the symptoms of it, but I think it may be more that he is overtired than anything else...
Just a follow up question about the A time... If it should be 1 hour 15-30 minutes, does that include the E time? Or does the A time start after he eats?
Also, how hard should I push for a full 12 hour night? If he is waking after 11 hours, should I be trying to put him back to sleep for that last hour? He seems to wake after 10.5-11 hours on a regular basis...
Also, as for thinking he might just be hungry, I've wondered this too since he seems to always be hungry... Every 1 hr45 minutes to 2 hours during the day... He averages about 30-35 oz of formula in a 24 hour period... Not sure if this is excessive or not... He was born at 6 lb 14 oz and now weighs just over 14 lbs at 11 weeks... I know that the weight gain seems rapid... Maybe I'm over feeding?

[heatherc4]

Ugh. It's now 230 in the afternoon and try as I may, he's only had 1 nap of 45 minutes...

[Ima shel Alon]

After the dream feed, he will usually sleep only another two hours before waking up and he will usually take a full bottle (3.5-4oz of formula) on occasion he will sleep longer after the dream feed... 2 nights ago he slept 5 hours after the dream feed (for a total of an 8 hour stretch) and last night he slept 4 hours past the dream feed (for a total of a 6 hour stretch). Once he wakes that first time, I would say on average he wakes every two hours, but the again the night before last (with the 8 hour stretch) he only woke once at 4, and last night (with the 6 hour stretch) he only woke twice at 3 and 6.

How was last night? I am just thinking maybe the frequent NW was a phase and now it's gone. Have you started the DF recently? That can also cause the night to be a bit wonky at first, till things settle down.
He is still in an age that it's ok for him to feed 2-3 times a night, so I wouldn't be expecting him to STTN yet.

I'm not 100% sold on the idea that he has reflux. I do acknowledge that he has some of the symptoms of it, but I think it may be more that he is overtired than anything else...

That's something I am afraid I can't help with You'd need to see a doc. to be sure, and IIWY that would be my first priority. If he DOES have Reflux that changes things regarding sleep and if he DOES have it and will be medicated it often helps with sleep as well. If he is in discomfort right now, no amount of tweaking will help his sleep.

Just a follow up question about the A time... If it should be 1 hour 15-30 minutes, does that include the E time? Or does the A time start after he eats?

A times start when eyes open, till eyes close.

Also, how hard should I push for a full 12 hour night? If he is waking after 11 hours, should I be trying to put him back to sleep for that last hour? He seems to wake after 10.5-11 hours on a regular basis...

We always had 11h night, till DS was 1.5yo. Many babies need only 11h at night.

Maybe I'm over feeding?

TBH, I am not sure... I will ask someone to come and have a look at your post.

Ugh. It's now 230 in the afternoon and try as I may, he's only had 1 nap of 45 minutes...

What was the day like? What was his A before that nap?
45min are often developmental at this age, but can also be UT.

[heatherc4]

How was last night? I am just thinking maybe the frequent NW was a phase and now it's gone. Have you started the DF recently?

last night was rough getting him down, it took almost an hour to settle him, and then he woke after 45 minutes... after shush/patting him and adjusting his swaddle, he went back to sleep (on his own) after about 15 minutes. we did the dream feed at midnight, and he woke at 0245 and then again at 0500 and 0730. its now 0830 and he is still sleeping (restlessly)
I do hope the frequent waking was a phase... it really wore on me.... we started the dream feed about a week and a half ago, and it was about that time that the frequent wakings started to die down and settle into just 2 wakings... maybe that was the issue?  not enough calories to get him through...

What was the day like? What was his A before that nap?

the A time was pretty mellow before his nap, sitting in the bouncy chair (it has hanging toys)... nothing too stimulating, since during that time I have my hands full getting DS1 up for the day... perhaps he was UT... I will try a bit more stimulation today to see if that helps.

You'd need to see a doc. to be sure, and IIWY that would be my first priority. If he DOES have Reflux that changes things regarding sleep and if he DOES have it and will be medicated it often helps with sleep as well.

Unfortunately my doctor is on vacation this week, so we have to wait to see if we can get in early next week...

Ugh, I just wish babies would be born talking.... that way all the guess work would be taken out! but then again, how creepy would that be... "hey mom, hows it going? thanks for carrying me around for 40 weeks... Im hungry now..." lol.

at this point, I just have to keep reminding myself that yesterday is done and today is a new day....

[Ima shel Alon]

we did the dream feed at midnight

DF should be around 22-23. I am not sure why, but there is a reason for that. I think that if you do it later than that then it could interrupt sleep, has to do something with the sleep phases at night.

Ugh, I just wish babies would be born talking.... that way all the guess work would be taken out! but then again, how creepy would that be... "hey mom, hows it going? thanks for carrying me around for 40 weeks... Im hungry now..." lol.

Tell me about it. When DS started teething I asked the same - why babies are not just born with them to save all the pain? But how creepy would *that* be.

I would be working on upping his A time a bit, just to see if it makes a difference. If not, then discomfort is your next bet.

[heatherc4]

DF should be around 22-23.

We usually do the dream feed around 2300, but after an exhausting day I ended up falling asleep on the couch, so I did it at midnight when I woke up.

I would be working on upping his A time a bit, just to see if it makes a difference.

I kinda agree on this one... looking back, he seems to have had better naps when he had a longer A time, but I had adjusted them about a week ago according to his age range in hopes that it would make nights a bit easier, but it looks like nights are fairly well on track with him putting himself to sleep and only 2 wakings (which I can totally deal with.)

regardless of how horrible his naps are during the day, he seems pretty consistent now with his night time of putting himself to sleep and only having 2 wakings.... is it possible that he only requires a scattering of cat naps? is there such a type of baby? or is it a matter of trying to get the right A time to get him to nap longer?

[heatherc4]

Well, we tried a longer A time this morning, and he went down easily for his nap, but this time instead of 45 minutes, we only got 30 this despite trying to extend. When he wakes up from these short naps, he cries, but definitely not an "I'm in pain" cry, just an "I'm awake now" cry...

[*Mona*]

hi there

I have a 11 wo girl and we also do at least 4 naps a day... first one is usually 45 minutes, the second one 1,5~2hrs, third one is on the go so sometimes 1hr, sometimes more and then a "catnap" of 45min~1hr. Her day is from around 6~6:30am to 6:30~7:30pm, one NW at different hours [definitely due to hunger].

I'd say there's nothing wrong with more naps than the book says as long as the total time of the naps is not too long to be robbing off the night sleep. All babies are different, some are ready for longer naps sooner, some go through 45min naps "phase" for weeks and weeks.

11/12 weeks is I think a difficult period- babies become more alert, start to notice the world around them more, get new motor skills- it all has its influence on sleep and general fussiness.

It will get better just observe your Lo as much as you can. 1,5hrs of A time is a general idea not all babies are ready for at 11 weeks. Dd's A times vary from 1hr 10 min to 1 hr 45 min. But I have a 7yo schoolgirl not a 20mo toddler in the house and definitely have more time to spend on watching my baby girl than you do. Hugs and hang in there  

[heatherc4]

I'd say there's nothing wrong with more naps than the book says as long as the total time of the naps is not too long to be robbing off the night sleep.   

Oohhh, we are so far away from robbing the night sleep... We are luck if we get a couple of 45 minute naps in during the day... The schedule that I posted was my *ideal* schedule... But what is ideal and what is a reality are several bottles of wine apart! Lol

We got our Woombie in the mail this morning, so we are currently trying for nap number 2 with it... To say I have high hopes for it is an understatement, but I have heard great things about it... 15 minutes into this nap now and he is sleeping quite well... Hopefully this helps because he was breaking out of every swaddle I tried....

[*Mona*]

wow I'm jealous I wanted the woombie for dd but to get it here is just too pricey. We use a magic blanket and it's working really well - dd's also a wriggler and she hated being swaddled until we got the blanket, now she settles down in a minute or two

[Ima shel Alon]

Well, we tried a longer A time this morning, and he went down easily for his nap, but this time instead of 45 minutes, we only got 30  this despite trying to extend. When he wakes up from these short naps, he cries, but definitely not an "I'm in pain" cry, just an "I'm awake now" cry...

You should expect those, because you upped the A it takes him time to get used to it. Just give it time and be consistent.

is it possible that he only requires a scattering of cat naps? is there such a type of baby? or is it a matter of trying to get the right A time to get him to nap longer?

This has the answer to your question: Why is it important that my baby gets more than a 45 minute nap?
Hope you got a better nap.

[heatherc4]

wow I'm jealous I wanted the woombie for dd but to get it here is just too pricey.   

Well, so far so good... He slept for 45 minutes for this nap, and with some resettling, he went back to sleep...  Even if this isn't the answer, I think I might buy more anyways just because he looks so darn cute in it!! Haha. I feel your jealousy pain though... I hate reading about all these miracle products that people use, and being so desperate to try anything.... Only to find out that you can't get the product... I find a lot of the time, companies won't ship to Canada for some reason... My 20 month old recently went through a 'I will only eat freeze dried strawberries' phase and for the life of me, I had a horrible time trying to find them in bulk that would ship to Canada... Finally found a company, and lo-and-behold, he has moved on to cucumbers.... Now I have 5 pounds of strawberries that I don't know what to do with!

You should expect those, because you upped the A it takes him time to get used to it. Just give it time and be consistent.

You mean I have to be *more* patient? But I want it *now!* lol... Maybe I'll try crying at him and see if that works? Lol.

So far an hour into his nap... Dare I say 'yay'

[heatherc4]

2.5 hour nap! yay!!