11 Month Old Schedule advice please

[ArtMommy]

Hi, Here is his current schedule. I'm a bit confused at bed time. I'm not sure what to do, I don't want to overstimulate him. He never goes down easily except once in awhile and has at least 1 NW. Sometimes I'll get 2 days in a row he sleeps all the way through! but then goes back to 1-2 NW usually 4 am or 6am. I have no help at night or in the morning so I'm generally irritated and tired. Its very hard me to not "sway" with him and shhh pat and pick up, except last night when he stood I simply put him back to lying and he fell asleep again.
Current Schedule:
6:30/7am - Wake
7am - 6-8 oz Bottle
A
8am - Breakfast Solids
10am - Nap usually for 1 hour 10 min - yesterday it was 2 hours with no PM nap and early bedtime!!
11:15am - Bottle 6-7oz
A
12:30pm -Lunch Solids
A
2:15pm - Walk  2 days ago for 2 days he fell asleep at 245pm on our walk. I went home and put him in his crib.
3pm - Nap usually 1 hour or 1 hour 10-15 min
3pm or 4pm - 8oz. Bottle time depends on when he naps. Seem to be transitioning right now to maybe one nap???
A
530pm - Dinner Solids
6-7pm - Bath bottle bedtime - He usually is hard to put to bed and falls asleep almost near 8pm. He fell asleep early yesterday BT since no PM nap. Wondering if I should put him to bed earlier. I originally thought I should push his bedtime back and give him his bath at 7pm so he didn't go straight into the bath after he eats, but now I'm not sure. He NW 1-2 times a night around 4am and 6am. If he wakes at 630am he wont go back down. last night he stood up and cried about 5 times. I would put him down and he would fall asleep again. This happened after my husband attempted to change his diaper :/ It took me over an hour to get him to go back to sleep starting at 1:15am
12am - Diaper change

Help advice!

[ArtMommy]

....also he has been very "clingy" lately more so than usual. I have his room, our room, an area by the TV and couches and a "pen" area he can play in since we have 4 animals the floors are gross! He never "lets" me leave the area he is in without a fuss. If he is in the pen area and I leave to the kitchen where I can see him he crawls closest to me climbs up and stands staring at me and then starts to fuss. He will play by himself, but I have to be in the area sitting there. Not sure how to teach him its ok to be by yourself and I am near.

[Ima shel Alon]

There might be one of the following going on or perhaps a few at the same time:
*It sounds like he is clingy either because of SA, you can read about it more here: Stranger Anxiety-5 months+ and he just doesn't want you to be away from him, is not sure if you are coming back, and so on OR it could be discomfort, probably teething. The teething and SA could explain NW as well.
*

usually 4 am or 6am.

This could be habitual waking if it occurs every night at the same time. Perhaps in the past it was hunger related and stayed there because he is so used to it. If you think it's that and not routine related then you can try and do W2S How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods)
*

Its very hard me to not "sway" with him and shhh pat and pick up, except last night when he stood I simply put him back to lying and he fell asleep again.

Pat/shh is not age appropriated anymore and usually at this age it disturb them more than helping them sleep. The better way to do it at his age is PU/PD, but if he is pulling himself in the bed already then you can use only PD, which is IMO is far easier than PU/PD because there is no frequent picking up - I remember my back hurt so much when I did it at 4m that I had to quit... I am not sure how you are trying to settle now the NW, but IIWY I would use PD.
*

10am - Nap usually for 1 hour 10 min

3pm - Nap usually 1 hour or 1 hour 10-15 min

Seem to be transitioning right now to maybe one nap???

Yes, he is in an age that most babies start the transition from 2 naps to 1, but it's a long way, it doesn't just happen, otherwise LO gets extremely OT. The way Tracey suggested doing it is capping the AM nap and having a full nap (1.5-2h) in the PM. For us personally it never worked because DS' better nap was the morning one, so I capped the PM one. You can read about it more here: 10 to 12 mth old Sleep Gone Wonky, and the 2 - 1 Nap Switch
I think in your case, your two naps right now are UT, the length of them would indicate that, so I would be working on capping one of them and getting the other one established and longer than it is now (1.5-2h). It's up to you on what nap you want to work, but let's say you cap the AM one and want a full PM nap, then in the first few days you cap the first nap but leave the second A time as it is now, so he doesn't get OT. After a few days, if PM nap is still not long enough then you push the second A by 10-15min and stick to it for 3-4 days and see if there is a change with the nap. If you decide to cap the PM nap then up the first A by 10-15min for 3-4 days, you can leave the second A as it is for now and cap the PM nap.
*

6-7pm - Bath bottle bedtime - He usually is hard to put to bed and falls asleep almost near 8pm. He fell asleep early yesterday BT since no PM nap. Wondering if I should put him to bed earlier.

How much A would you say he has before BT? Because according to what you posted it's sometimes 2h and that's not much at all. I actually think that he is going to bed UT and that's why he is fighting sleep for such a long stretch. I would try and stick more with 19, rather than 18 and make sure the second nap is spaced enough from BT.

Hope that helps and that I didn't rumble much . Let me know how you are doing.

[ArtMommy]

Hi Thank you so much!
I wrote a long reply last night but never got to finish so Ill just talk about what happened yesterday and today.
The P/D is working great. No 5am wake up last night
Yesterday he had a 1 hour and 4 min AM nap. It took forever for him to go down I think because I waited until 10am instead of 940am. I wanted him to be tired, but he just went back and forth back and forth in the crib. He woke crying and still tired but I could not get him to fall back asleep. He usually falls asleep around 10am he fell asleep at 1030am ish.
 He refused his second nap. I tried for an hour to put him down. Started at 2:18pm because he was acting tired.  I Cried of frustration! He went back and forth back and forth. He was tired. He wont even let me pick him up if I wanted. I reach for him and he plops down and rubs his face into the blanket then back and forth back and forth ugh.
Night was better. He went down at 7pm and slept through the night waking once around 3am screaming. I think having a night terror. When he does this P/D does not work. I end up taking him to a chair and laying him on a pillow in my lap. He will either fall asleep or lay their motionless with his eyes glassy and open. I transferred him to his crib after a few minutes he let out a cry then fell asleep until 6:37am and woke very happy.
Today again took forever for him to go down. He did the back and forth thing and eventually laid down 20-30min later tossed and turned and whimpered which is new and finally fell asleep for 1 hour 12 min.
He has not had a bath in 3 days for various reasons so I gave him one at 2pm and I really think the bath excites him at night and that is part of the problem for bedtime. So after the bath he was acting tired at about 2:20pm so I took him into the room to wind down. I let me roll around on our bed instead of going back and forth in the crib. When I transferred him to the crib he did the back and forth and finally after 20 min laid down but tossed and turned and whimpered for awhile. He fell asleep exactly at 300pm. Its 4:01pm right now. He usually wakes at 4pm if he takes a PM nap. Do you think taking a bottle at 4pm or later instead of 3pm messes him up at all? When he does not take his nap he gets the bottle at 3pm 0r 330pm. Then dinner at 530pm and BT bottle at 7pm.
I'm trying to figure out what to do with the bath. He seems to do much better at night without it.
Thank you!

[Ima shel Alon]

Sweety, he is still UT. IIWY I would be working on upping his A time because right now he is not doing much. It's normal for LOs to seem tired enough to go to bed and they eventually fall asleep as well, but the length of the nap is not restorative enough for him. In general 45min-1:20h long naps are UT and 30-35min naps are OT, and what you are aiming for is 1.5-2h nap which is restorative.

If you think the bath is a problem before BT then can you have it in a different time of the the? In the morning when he wakes up or after one of the naps?

[ArtMommy]

Ok, so I definitely need to not be trying to get him to go down earlier to extend the nap. Should I just wait until he is very tired in the morning to put him down instead of doing a wind down? I was afraid to do this because when he sleeps over his bottle time I thought that would mess things up so I try to keep the times very consistent. 940am wind down 10am he usually falls asleep. He didn't seem super tired for his PM nap today, but I took him in the room anyway because that's what we have been doing. If he doesn't seem tired should I just not attempt?

I really feel a bit lost. I'm not sure how to proceed. 

Today he fell asleep for PM nap around 330pm it was only 50 min in length. AM was 1 hour 15 min again. He slept well through the night last night, but did take awhile to fall asleep. I let him play longer tonight and did a short wind down of diaper change, PJs one book and his Dad gave him bottle. They are in there now for BT,

Thank you for helping me out with this, I'm so happy you are here to answer questions to lost Mom's like me!

[ArtMommy]

Yesterday he went down over tired for both naps. He was crying and fussy and did not sleep a block like usual. Today same for AM nap only 45 min and I tried for 20min to get him to go back down. I guess I need to find the perfect balance of tired and wind down...

[Ima shel Alon]

Sorry I only reply now, I was away.
No, I don't think he was OT for the naps if he napped for 45min, that would be an Ut nap.
At his age the sleepy cues are often not reliable anymore, so perhaps watching the clock and counting A time would work better for you.
His morning A time is a certain time right now and if you up it by 10-15min then you have a better chance in getting a better nap in the morning. In the afternoon, I wouldn't let him nap more than 45min if it was me, it's very common for the second nap to be short because you need to put it too early in the day (I mean - not enough A time before it) otherwise you won't have enough A time before BT.

[ArtMommy]

Ok, yes I am still watching the cues! That makes more sense to have a long AM nap and Shorter PM nap.
He napped AM nap this morning for 50 min so I thought I could try to get him to go down a bit earlier for his PM nap, but not luck. He fell asleep on our walk yesterday so today I shortened the walk to 2pm-2:30pm so he wouldn't fall sleep in the stroller and took him to his crib right after, but he fought it and went to sleep at 3:07pm. Alright so Ill do a 45 min PM nap should I continue trying to get him to sleep earlier or is 3pm ok. I will continue trying to get him to sleep longer in the morning. Maybe a snack would help before nap time because he wakes up for his bottle I think around 11am.

Yesterday he had a great BT and slept well through the night I think due to all the exercise he got from going round and round with his push walker. I think this is part of the issue also, he is very very active and we have limited areas he can play in right now(plus I'm tired!) I'm so glad he is interested all of a sudden in the walker its giving us great active time. I'm trying to get my Mom to buy him a play center he can crawl under over and slide down for his Bday coming up!
I also talked a lot about how we were going to bed and he could sleep with his bunny. I really ever say "its bedtime" or talk about it, I just go into the routine.

I have a quick question about Eating breakfast, Ive gone back and forth with when this. He gets a bottle right when he wakes up and bfast solids usually at 8am, but he eats for a long time 30 min+ this morning I gave him his bottle at 7am and he ate at 730am thinking perhaps I should just give him both right away so he can expel energy during A time with no long eating break. I saw an example schedule for an 11 month old on one of the links where the Mom has bfast first thing and bottle before AM nap. I was wondering if I should try something like that or if it would be too complicated to change up everything?

Thank you so so much for your help. We were cruising along do the example 10 month routine from the book almost to a T and now things are all over the place. Thank you for giving me some direction! 

[ArtMommy]

Here are 2 of the schedules that look pretty doable for us. I havent been giving him snacks before naps. Maybe I should do that.

Wake and BF 7am
Breakfast 7.30am
Snack 9.30am
Nap 10am - 10.20am

Lunch 12pm
Nap 1pm - 3pm

Snack 3pm
Dinner 5pm
8oz Bottle 7pm
Bedtime 7.15pm

6:30-6:45 wake and play in bed

7:00-7:15 breakfast

9:30-9:45 8 oz bottle + nap ( 1.5 to 2 hours long  :roll: never did that before)

11:30-12:00 lunch

15h00-15h30 8oz bottle and nap ( again 1.5 to 2 hours long )

5:30 dinner
6:30-6:45 bath-8oz bottle

 7:00-7:15 bedtime

[Ima shel Alon]

Alright so Ill do a 45 min PM nap should I continue trying to get him to sleep earlier or is 3pm ok. I will continue trying to get him to sleep longer in the morning. Maybe a snack would help before nap time because he wakes up for his bottle I think around 11am.

If his morning nap was cut short and you think he is very tired you can let him nap longer than that.
A snack could help, but tweaking the A is where I'd put my money. 50min is an UT nap and it sounds like he needs more A time before it.
I think 15 is a good time for a PM nap, but it's really hard to tell, we'll just have to see how the next few days go.

Re breakfast IIWY I would still keep it after the bottle. I think it's still important till they are 1yo that milk is a first priority and it is more beneficial for their nourishment. If he takes long to eat then you can try and have the solids later in the morning, so like 2h after the bottle and not just an hour.

I think in the first sample you posted the naps are too long. I mean, you should be aiming to have 1 long nap but to have the other one long as well sounds to me like too much day sleep. This will only work if he is high sleep needs.
The second sample, I can't see the second nap... It's too early for him to be on one nap only.

BTW, if you feel like his PM nap has been the more stable one in the past then you could be aiming for a short AM nap, long PM nap.

[ArtMommy]

Ok thank you so much. I will continue keeping an eye on the clock and pushing for longer A time. I think he will end up sticking to a short PM nap and Ill keep working at the AM nap just need to figure out the scenario that works for us so he will sleep longer. He slept great last night again, no wake up at 5am but he did stir and change positions like the other night. I heard him babbling but he fell back asleep on his own. 
I tried this today:
630am wake
645am bottle 6-7oz
715am solids (Ill do later solids tomorrow.)
A
10am bottle 6-7oz
1040am he fell asleep for his nap

Hopefully today or in a day or 2 he will sleep until 12pm or 1230pm and he can wake and eat lunch then Ill give him a bottle at 2pm. Not sure what this will do to the PM nap today. He seems to be able to stay up for 4 hours. Maybe if he starts waking at 12pm he would take a short nap still at 3pm. We shall see!

Not sure if this is the right direction, but it feels like it. I didn't try to put him down at 940am like usual we kept A time going until I gave him the bottle then I tried to wind him down a bit.
We shall see!

Thank you so much!!

[Ima shel Alon]

It could be that this 20min jump is what he needed, just be careful he is not getting OT because it could be a bit too much all of a sudden.
I would still try a nap at 15 and if you struggle with it then it means he was not tired enough. When we were at this stage, also around 11m, I did long AM nap because it was more solid and PM nap was at 16 till 16:45. At first I though it's not going to be enough A time before BT (19:00) but he was always ok with it. I guess he was tired from the day.

[ArtMommy]

I think so! Its hard to believe such a small amount of time would make it work.
Yesterday he did get tired for his PM nap. I wasn't sure if he would take it since he woke up around 12pm ( 1hour and 11 min am nap yesterday). He fell asleep around 340pm and he slept exactly 45 min so I didn't need to wake him. BT wasn't as much as a battle, but he did wake and cry a few times so I stayed in the room for awhile until he was really asleep. He stayed asleep all night. He stirred a little bit around 5am like usual but put himself back down.
Today so far:
630am wake
640am Bottle
A
8am Bfast -  he got hungry so I fed him. Tomorrow Ill see if he can go a little later.
10:06am Bottle - He was getting really tired  around this time. Almost fussy so I didn't want to wait any longer.
10:15am - He fell asleep with no crib parade!!!!! I don't know the last time it was that smooth!!

Wow! We will see how long he sleeps today. I was so afraid to give him the bottle before naps that I wasn't noticing it needed to overlap, but we really seems to be headed in the right direction hooray!
Thank you so much for your help I'm so glad I found this forum at just the right time!!
xoxo

[Ima shel Alon]

That's great progress! I hope he had a good nap!