12.5 MO NWs - SA or something else?

[Straffles]

My 12.5 MO is on a stable routine (short am, long pm), is not teething, not in any other way ill, and definitely not OT or UT. He can wake 1-3 times a night. I settle him with bf. Recently, he has been waking either screaming and obviously upset (as if OT), or else 20 mins after re-settling (and then self-settling or needing further settling) and sometimes simply won't come off boob and go into cot to settle (usually in the early morning).

He's definitely been feeling the effects of the recent WW, but seems to have moved through the leap. HE's also possibly close to walking, but then has been this way for a while.

So... I am thinking is it possible he could be experiencing nightmares and/or separation anxiety - has anyone experienced similar?

Thank you

[scruffymax]

Hi Straffles, I'm so glad to hear your days are going well!  We're also doing short am, long pm naps at the moment.  DD seems to (touch wood) have just come through the last wonder week in the last few days - the last few weeks were terrible, I thought she'd had a personality transplant!  She has almost always STTN but we had some long NWs as well as difficulty settling at bedtime.  TBH I'm not sure of the cause - I thought it could have been SA from me starting work part time, or teething (4th top tooth taking forever to cut through, plus I can feel 1st top molars through the gum), or routine (thought she was UT and needed to drop to 1 nap but now disagree with that), or the wonder week.  Because it was so unusual for her to be unsettled, I got her up each time for cuddles etc, and it usually took an hour+ to get her back to bed.  Then she seemed to twig that she could cry if she didn't want to go to bed so I had to get a bit tough but since then she has been better (that was just on the weekend).  So in a nutshell I'm really not sure... but just wanted to let you know that we've also had disrupted sleep.  It makes me feel better to know something odd DD is doing is "normal" for her age so just wanted to offer you that reassurance!  And also the encouragement that ours seems to have settled down so hopefully your LO will soon :-)

[TracyP21]

Hi Straffles & Scruffymax,

Great to hear that you guys are back in the 2 nap land and its working for you both.  We are doing AM nap at about 10:45 at the moment for 1.5 hours and then a short PM nap around 4 which is usually in the car.  What are your nap times for short AM/long PM as I think if we switched to this we could hold onto 2 naps longer.
Re: Separation anxiety - we have sometimes had it at BT but randomly, but happening more during the day (R has just started day care so that could be a factor).  I think its supposed to be very normal and common at this age (R is nearly 13 months).  Or whatever normal is  lol.

[scruffymax]

I'm still experimenting a bit (usually not a good thing!) but today was 9am-9:40, and then 1pm-3pm (had to wake her).  Basically aiming for 9/9:30am for 40 mins and then 1/1:30pm for up to 2 hrs.  This should hopefully also work in with when family members have her a couple of days a week and have to do school runs etc.  BT is 7pm and WU is usually somewhere in the vicinity of 6:30am.  DD was refusing pm nap a lot when she was doing long am nap although I never tried it as late as 4pm as 4:15pm was my magic cutoff time that I had to wake her to get her to bed by 7pm :-)

[TracyP21]

Cool = thanks for the tips.  Yes, I hate the late nap but we have just pushed bedtime out to 7:30pm and it seems to be working well.  Its giving us a definite 6:30/6:45 WU when before we were sometimes getting a 5:30 one.  Did you find much resistance to making the AM nap sooner - does she take a while to fall asleep?

[scruffymax]

Sorry for the thread hijack Straffles!  Amazingly she is fine to go to sleep at that time.  We have started a new bedtime/nap routine where we have a snuggle, she has her dummy and we read a book, and she's responding really well to that.  Mornings were always a bit of a struggle to get her to 10am unless we were out and about so it's much easier now to put her down at 9am as she's ready for it.

[Buttonbobs]

Hi straffles, is there a possibility you have some teething going on? When we've ha teething recently it's really affected night sleep. Have you tried meds before bed or at a dream-feed time to see if it makes any difference?

If not, learning to walk can really make a difference, such a big development for their little brains to manage. Try giving him as much time to practice as possible in the day (I'm sure you are anyway) to help him feel less frustrated and hopefully the sleep will come back together once he gets hold of his new skill.

[Straffles]

Hello and thank you everyone.

I think we have everything in the mix atm. Nights are awful!

Atm we've got around 3 NWs and they can often be really unsettled, go on for ages, and usually one is early morning and may or may not re-settle. That one has to be teething, I feel.

Buttonbobs - He's spending most of his day walking holding my hand, and tonight he took about 7 steps towards me from Daddy's arms ))

Let's see what happens. I feel it's all getting worse, and the last week has been pretty bad. His good daytime naps have meant BT closer to 8pm and a 13 hour day, so I wonder about OT, but I really don't think he's Ot, you know? Hmmmm. Just wish, when he wakes, that he'd go back to sleep more easily

[Buttonbobs]

Congrats on the walking

Hugs honey - we started to see an improvement in sleep shortly after E started taking steps regularly on her own, I hope this is true for you too. If it is teething, I decided to medicate when necessary and do a bit of co-sleeping just to get through it really. She's gone back ok to sleeping in her own cot without too much trouble so I'm glad I did. When times are tough, just do what you need to get by. It doesn't sound as it if it is OT that is the problem. Here to hold your hand x

[Straffles]

Hi again ladies.

Just checking my records and it's been over 4 weeks we've been getting the early morning wakings consistent with teething. Anything after 4am really. Added to that, we've been getting 3 NWs. Lots of agitation. Lots of Nurofen

Also a waking at around 9-10pm generally when BT is closer to 8 on a 13 hour day...I've been thinking that's teething, but??

So, I'm getting no sleep which is not good of course. But also jus wondering why nights are so bad.

BB - Benji has kind of regressed on the walking, so maybe it's that? He wants to hold your hand again now and isn't confident on his own.

The molars are coming through too, but that's been going on for months now. Is this typical? I wish things would just settle a bit given how good daytime routine is working, I'd hope it would, you know!

[scruffymax]

Hi Straffles, we've also had a few more NWs over the last week or 2.  Not every night but they usually take around 2hrs.  Yawn.  I can also feel DD's first molars top and bottom so have resorted to nurofen before bed every night.  She still woke around 11pm last night even with nurofen before bed but thankfully went back to sleep on her own quickly, that time.  DD is a super speedy crawler, started just before 7 months so over 6 months of crawling now and still not walking on her own.  She has progressed to being able to walk just holding on to one hand now.

So no advice or words of wisdom, just some commiseration.  I'm really sorry it's every night for you, that must be really tough.  I know you probably wouldn't do this but just have to add in the suggestion to maybe have a night apart from your DS and let his Dad or someone else look after him, just to have a break and hopefully a good night's sleep.  The only other thing I could suggest, and you may have already done this, but to get him reviewed by a paed just to check there are no medical issues other than teething causing the NW as I don't think 3 long NWs every night is normal at this age.  Thinking of you, and just wanted to say I think you are doing an awesome job.

[scruffymax]

Just to add Straffles, are you in a major city where they have inpatient baby/toddler sleep schools?  I have spoken with a few friends who have been to Ellen Barron centre in Brisbane and found it really helpful.  There's no cost, they provide all your meals etc for the stay (5 days I think), the nurses are really supportive.  Just throwing ideas out there.

[Buttonbobs]

Hugs straffles. Molars do seen to take forever and they do cause a lot of pain and discomfort as they move around too.