Can you help me come up with a plan to eliminate NWs?

[nossi]

Sorry this is a bit long but I wanted to give you all the information you'll need to help me!  DD is 7 mo, breastfed with 3 meals a day, has been on solids for 2 months and is pretty much an angel baby during the day.  Takes 2-3 naps (described below) and falls asleep for them independently.  She's in daycare 3-4 days a week, where her naps are too early but the length is at least getting longer.  She has slept through the night (12 hrs) without feedings a handful of times.  She was a decent sleeper at night until about 2 months ago, when I inadvertently continued nursing her at night thinking she was hungry.  Now she wakes 2-3 times per night, starting with a complaining cry, which then quickly escalates until I nurse her back to sleep again.  Maybe 20% of the time it seems like she's actually hungry.  But normally she just slowly sucks, cries if I take her off before she falls asleep.  It's taking a toll on my work and on DH's health.  DD's crib is in our room (we live in a small apartment), which isn't helping.  I am ready to try to eliminate at least one of the night feedings starting Thursday night.  I then have 3 full nights that I can dedicate to it before I have to go to work again on Monday.  No signs of teeth, BTW.  I am kind of at a loss and need some help!  Here's a sample routine:

8am: Wake and BF
10:00: Breakfast
10:15-11:15/11:30: Nap at daycare.  When at home, she naps from 11:00-12:30.
11:30: Bottle of breastmilk - 5oz (I'm trying to up this to 7 oz)
1:00: Lunch
2:30-3:15: Nap at daycare.  When at home, she naps from 3:30-4:15 or so.  This 2nd nap is typically 45 minutes.  Sometimes it's even 30 if she sleeps in the stroller b/c we're out with her 4 yo brother.
4:00: Bottle of breastmilk
6:00-6:30: Sometimes she takes a 3rd catnap on the walk home from daycare b/c her 2nd nap is too early and too short.  This is the only way I can get her to stay awake long enough to eat dinner, have a bath and BF before bed.  I'm hoping in a month or 2, we won't need to do this anymore.
6:30: Dinner
7:30: BF
8:30: BT (she goes to bed this late b/c of the 3rd catnap.  Sometimes she doesn't fall asleep until 9pm when she takes this 3rd catnap.  When she's home and doesn't take it, she's in bed by 7:00/7:30-ish)
12:30 or so: BF
4:30 or so: BF
8:00 Wakeup

This is on a good night, though.  She sometimes starts complaining at 2am, goes in and out of sleep until she really cries at 4am.  I know the schedule's not perfect, but not a lot I can do right now about the daycare napping situation.  I've asked them to move her naps back a little and they said they try.  Problem is, if they move her naps back too much, the other babies will be awake and she won't get much of a nap at all.  They sleep in the same room as they play

My plan is to try dream feeding her at 11:00 before I go to bed.  I've never been really consistent with the DF.  She has always only drank from one side for DF and never that enthusiastically, so I don't think she's getting much.  But I'm hoping the DF will disrupt her 12:30 wakeup at least.  Maybe I should try a DF bottle so I know what she's getting?  My next step was doing to be to do PU/PD for the 12:30 wakeup (if it still happens with the DF).  But then do I BF her at 4:30?  Do I try to eliminate one NW at a time instead of doing PU/PD for every night waking?  The trouble is that she's not always consistent with when she wakes.  For example, she went to bed at 7:30 on Monday night, then woke at 9pm and 12pm (BF to sleep both times b/c I was so exhausted!).  Then she slept through until 7:15!  So I'm a little confused.  Does anyone have any ideas?  ANY help would be very much appreciated!!

[nossi]

So last night I had to hold her to sleep - she finally fell asleep at 9:30 in my arms (she started out UT b/c of the 3rd catnap, then escalated to OT and I wanted to help her b/c she has to be in daycare all day today).  I also tried a bottle DF at 11, she only took 1 ounce.  But then she slept through until 7:45!  Perhaps it disrupted her sleep and served as sort of a W2S?  So if she's not consistently waking every night, will PU/PD still work?  Do I just use it for the nights that she wakes?  Should I just commit to using it then for one night waking in case she's hungry?  She's slept through before, only to wake 2-3 times the following night, usually at the same times, but sometimes not.  Any ideas?  Gosh, I felt like I had this sleeping thing so together when DS was a baby, but I'm coming to realize DS was just a much better sleeper than DD.  She's really got me confused (and exhausted)...

[Erin M]

Ugh, that daycare schedule is definitely throwing a wrench in things -- my dd2 was the same way, we were either barely making it to BT or up way too late because of naps.    Anyway, I'd try to avoid the CN if at all possible by putting her to bed slightly earlier if you can (it's so hard when you work to get everything done and still get a baby to bed on time) --- I'm not sure how she does with being OT, but I will say at this age, my ds always had way too long a time before BT because of our PM school run -- we had pretty routine early evening wakings from OT for a few weeks, but he did eventually seem to grow into that long A before bed -- I'm wondering if that's the way you need to go? 

Does she settle herself independently for naps, BT?  Regarding night feeds, we generally say at this age that babies should be able to go as long (or longer) at night as they can during the day.  That being said, you know her best and if you really don't feel like she's taking much of anything at those feeds or only nursing long enough to get back to sleep, then I'd try to avoid feeding and use pu/pd instead (more likely just PD at this age).  You could also set a time that you won't feed before. 

[nossi]

Thanks so much, Erin!!  What do you mean by "more likely just PD at this age"?

Yes, daycare is really wreaking havoc on us!  I agree about trying to avoid the CN.  Been doing that for the last couple of days, and it just makes the evening a lot easier b/c I can focus on DS.  It's a mad rush to get her fed, etc, and she's up probably an HOUR longer than she should be, but I'm thinking in the next few weeks she'll really start adjusting.  Tonight she's been waking b/c OT, but she's been able to put herself back to sleep.  She almost always settles herself independently for naps (except that 2nd nap is almost always 30-45 min and she doesn't go back to sleep), but BT is tricky b/c without the CN, she always falls asleep while nursing and I put her in her crib asleep.  I would feel bad trying to wake her back up so she can fall asleep independently for BT.  What do you think?  I'm hoping I'm not creating another bad habit here!

Thanks for the NW advice.  I think I will just have to use my judgment and see what each day holds.  Last night, eg, I fed her twice b/c she hadn't eaten much during the day and I knew she'd be hungry.  Other nights, I can probably get away with only feeding her once (i.e., she would only actually be hungry once), but it could be, and has been, 1-2 hrs of work for us in the middle of the night b/c she'd want to nurse to get back to sleep.  Ugh.  What's throwing me for a loop is how inconsistent she is.  Last night she woke up 4 times, settled herself 2 of the times and nursed the other 2.  The nights before were totally different!  But perhaps if we consistently drop the CN so she has a 7-7:30 BT, I will start to see things becoming more consistent.  I may also introduce a lovey soon b/c she's very soothed by fabrics and "blankies" but I know at least here in the U.S., peds don't advise putting anything in the crib until they're a year old, so it makes me slightly nervous...

[Erin M]

There's some info here on age adaptations for pu/pd that should help clarify How to PU/PD (inc age adaptations)

I wouldn't worry about the nursing to sleep for now -- my ds did it for months and it never affected his night sleep.

Regarding the loveys, I used a sort of muslin blanket (Aidan and Annais makes them, night them at BuyBuyBaby -- really this so you don't worry about breatheability as much -- but of course, do what you're comfortable with. 

[nossi]

Erin - A couple days after I started putting DD to bed at 7 and not allowing the CN, she started waking up every 45 min-1 hr after BT!  Is this what your lo did when you mention above that he did this for a couple weeks before he adjusted?  For the 7:45/8:00 and 8:45/9:00 wakeups, I've been settling her in her crib and not picking her up.  Sometimes it works, but I often need to stay in there 30-40 minutes.  Then for the 10:30 wakeup, I've been feeding her since I'd probably try to DF her at 11 anyway.  But she's not that hungry at that time, but I feed her in the hopes that it buys me an extra hour or two before her next waking so I can get a little rest.  Do you think I should try W2S for all of these or just ride it out?  Now I'm really nervous to get a sitter, not to mention the fact that my work has been suffering because I often need to work during the hours that she's been waking.  Ugh...

[Erin M]

A couple days after I started putting DD to bed at 7 and not allowing the CN, she started waking up every 45 min-1 hr after BT!  Is this what your lo did when you mention above that he did this for a couple weeks before he adjusted?

Yes, pretty much!  Some nights it was a little later, but we would have the wake up after bedtime most nights. 

I did the dream feed earlier as well just because it seemed so closer to when he should have been nursing anyway, it was too much of a pain to actually get him resettled and then get him up and feed him.   

I would probably try to give it a little bit more time to ride it out and see if it gets any better. 

[nossi]

Thanks again!  I ordered the muslin blankets that you mentioned and am going to try them.  I think the major problem here is actually that she hasn't figured out how to really self-soothe.  If she could do that, then she'd be much better off even when she's OT.  She's getting better at settling but really needs my help to do it.  DS sucked his thumb from 3 months and that made all the difference.  Thanks so much for all the help!

[Erin M]

Good luck!  My first was a thumb sucker, it's just so much easier, isn't it? 
My dd2 sniffs her favorite stuffed animal to soothe (literally, she sticks her nose in it and sniffs deeply) and ds sucks on his blankets. 

[nossi]

Thumb sucking was the best thing that happened to us at the time!   And we were lucky that he stopped pretty easily at 2.5 yo.  Your lo's sound adorable.  Thanks again for the help.  We're still working through things, but she is definitely getter better and that's all I can ask for.

[Erin M]

Any kind of progress (even if it's slow progress) is great!  It's great to see people realistic enough to realize that change doesn't happen overnight (as much as we wish it would sometimes)!