Gradual retreat sleep training?

[Lauraemily84]

Hi I'm new here, I have a 17 month son who was sleeping in a sleep postioner wrap up until a few days ago and now figured out how to get out it won't sleep alone! He stands in his cot crying and calling me and then turns to screaming! I have spoken to my HV and she advices gradual retreat, I'm trying this and his doing ok as long as I'm sitting near his cot he will sleep.  But he wakes several times a night and is very awake and crys then when I return to my post he will sit up and look at me talk etc how do I get him back off to sleep? Any sucess stories? Also I know in a few nights I have to move a bit further away from him but once I do get out of sight won't he just cry and scream again and il be back to square one ? And as he wakes at night is it ok for me to sleep on his floor for a bit till his back asleep? Last night after two hours I put him in our bed as I was shattered but I know I mustn't do that but I need to sleep to. Many thanks x

[Buttonbobs]

Hi there and welcome

Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

This post gives a little more information about the gradual withdrawal method vs WIWO (which may not be suitable for your DS if he hasn't settled independently before.

As the link explains, it is important to ensure that your son is properly wound down before nap and night sleep - what do you do by way of a wind down routine? What timings does your son usually sleep for naps & night time and what time does he wake? This way we can check that his timings aren't influencing his difficulty in settling.

It sounds to me like you are doing the right things so far (are you doing the same of naps/NWs as well as BT?) the idea is that you move onto the next phase (further from the cot) before your LO has completely got used to you sitting within sight - to keep up the motivation and improvement towards independent sleep.

I hope this helps, please come back with some more information and we'll be here to hold your hand.

[Lauraemily84]

Thank you for your reply.

His routine is nap around 12/12.30pm which is normally 1-2 hours depending on if he stirs

Then bedtime is around 8pm

His wind down / bedtime routine is dinner 5/5.30pm, play watch tv, play with daddy etc then bottle around 7pm, 7.30 we take him upstairs do warm bath, pjs, stories and cuddles, then put him down in sleeping bag by 8pm.

My main concern is will he learn from me keep doing the rapid return as he stand s up and try's to play laugh chat, I ignor it and lay him back down and say bed time. Then I return to the pillow, whic is now pretty close to his door, but once I move outta sight how does this work? I know he will scream and cry so how to I tackle this and get him to sleep independent of me

[Buttonbobs]

What time does he wake in the morning?

His nap sounds good and lots of LOs manage a 13 hour day on a 2 hr nap but less (12-12.5 hrs) on a shorter nap. My DD seems to prefer a set nap and BT and we have set nap at 12.30 for 1.30hrs ish - she self regulates and rarely sleeps for 2 hours and then set BT at 7.30 but a bit earlier if her nap is not great. 8pm might be a little bit late, but you know your LO best so if he's been sleeping at this time for a long time then it's probably ok to stick with it.

I would suggest that you only need to approach your DS and put him down if he's crying a true cry (not a mantra cry which typically wouldn't escalate).

I would start to make the move outside of the door as soon as possible as you're already by the door and you are probably the prop so it's best to get out of the room if you can. I'm going to get some more eyes here from some other mums with btdt experience.

[cath~]

Hi there,
I went through this with my dd at around 18 months after we went through a tricky patch (there is a sleep regression around 17/18 months) and she got used to having us with her to fall asleep.
When we got to the point of me moving out of the door I used to use my voice to calm her.
I started off using 'shh' when I was still in the room, rather than going to her, if she got upset. So when I moved outside the room I could keep using the same method and she knew I was still there. If cry escalated then I would go back in, quick re-tuck/PD and leave again with a bit of shhh-ing. She got the idea and accepted it within a couple of nights.
The key I think is to be consistent and as pp said to keep pushing to give the minimum help necessary. Try not to get stuck at one point for too long.

[Khalam's Mama]

I did this recently with my ds2. In the end I just went out the door but sat outside, out of sight but talked to him saying our sleepy phrase, only going in if he was escalating. Are you sleep training for the 1st time, i understood he slept independently until you had to remove the positioned?

[Lauraemily84]

Thanks for the replys,
He wakes up at different times every day so its hard, ESP as some nights his awake for longer periods he may sleep in a bit more. Generally it's between 6.20- 7 am ( do you think i should try earlier bedtime again? how can i train him to wake up around the same time and not early? Before his sleep regression I did try an earlier bedtime 7.30 but he started waking wide awake at 5.30 and wouldn't go back to sleep so I worry and earlier bedtime will result in early waking? Today he woke about 6.30 am at that time i can't get him back to sleep ideally I'd like to get him up at 7am every day.
Last night I sat in the doorway so he could only just see a little bit of my back I have work tomorrow so from tomorrow eve I will move out of sight as have a few days off work so its easier. My son is also teething which is pretty much continues to wake him so once I tend to him I go back to my spot but do I continue to do this out of sight until he stops night awakenings altogether? His always woken up during the night I'm not sure if this will ever change. Thank you for all your help I really appreciate it

[Lauraemily84]

I did this recently with my ds2. In the end I just went out the door but sat outside, out of sight but talked to him saying our sleepy phrase, only going in if he was escalating. Are you sleep training for the 1st time, i understood he slept independently until you had to remove the positioned?

I have attempted sleep training before controlled crying but he is very stubborn and can cry all night and then be mega hard work the next day, even in his sleep positioned wrap he still would wake most nights he was having a small bottle of milk but I have since stopped giving that. His always woken up at least once pretty much I could count on one hand the amount of nights his slept right through

[Khalam's Mama]

I meant did u have to sit with him to go to sleep or were u able to leave the room with him awake ?
My ds2 also nw everynight for ages. He was much better once I Got him settling with me out of the room in the night.

[Lauraemily84]

Yes he used to fall asleep on his own in his wrap before, sometimes he would cry or winge for a few minutes but not long. I actually felt brave tonight and sat out side off his sight so far his good.

[Buttonbobs]

Well done you, that's a fabulous step forward. Stay strong tonight and keep doing what you're doing

[Khalam's Mama]

Hope you had a gd night. Well done.

[cath~]

sounds like it's going well.  Hope last night was ok too

[Lauraemily84]

Working well i just shh him from the hall way now, but his still waking lots during the night, he also wakes at 6am now he used to wake 7 ish can I do anything to get him to have an extra hour sleep?

[cath~]

Sounds like you're making great progress!

Re the NWs I think these will improve once he settles completely independently. Can you start reducing the amount of shh-ing you are doing? Perhaps try only shh-ing if he gets upset? From where you are now, you really don't have too far to go, you just need to keep up the momentum to move forward iyswim

If his sleep is better now then maybe that is why his nights are shorter now (he doesn't need to stay in bed so long to get same amount of sleep). Also, the EWs could be a symptom of him not being a completely independent sleeper yet but when he wakes early morning he's not tired enough to go back to sleep.

You could post your routine to see if we can suggest any tweaks if you like?

Also, in next next few months and once he is falling asleep independently, you could try introducing a Groclock or lights on a timer to help with EWs - it really helped us around 19/20 months.