Is BT too early?

[SusieQue]

Hi ladies, am hoping you can help me!  DS is 19MO and for the past week has been waking at around 5.15am (it was previously between 6 and 6.30 which was ideal!) He naps around 1.5 hours (although always longer at his grandma's house for some reason!) and because of the EW we have been putting him down at 6.30 (was 7pm).  But I'm wondering if this is just enforcing the EW (as technically they aren't EW because it's still an 11 hour night).  The past couple of nights I've heard him wake up around 1ish and babble to himself, which makes me wonder if he is UT when he goes to bed.  It takes him around 10 minutes of babbling at night before he falls asleep, so he's asleep closer to 6.45.  Here is his past few days' EASY:

WU 5.15 - babbles to himself for a while, usually get him up at 5.50
Nap - 12.15 - 1.45
BT 6.30, asleep 6.40ish

He never goes back to sleep in this morning and we've been keeping the nap set at 12.15 as this is what we've been doing for a month or so now.  Does anything look "off" to anyone?  Not sure if his nap should be later as he is taking a bit longer to settle to sleep on some days.  He has pretty much all his teeth now so don't think teething is an issue.  Am just wondering at what age you can extend their day without OT becoming a massive issue if they have been up early.  Would be grateful for any advice!

thanks.

[Tecike]

My boys are both low sleep needs, DS1 never had, DS2 has had only a handful of 12 hr nights so far. Now that it's warmer and we're outside more, and days are longer our days are lengthening as well. So, DS2, who is 21MO is usually up 630ish, has a nap of 1.5 hrs and BT is 8 pmish.

If your LOs sleep needs are also low, I would try pushing BT to 6.45ish for a few days and see if he continues the EW. That way you don't push him too much, but you'll be able to see if anything changes.

[HenaV]

Hey!

I agree with the suggestion of pushing the BT out by 15 to 6.45. I would try that for at least a week and see what comes. You may want to hold off pushing the nap out more in case of OT. It could be that your LO takes some time to settle for a nap because he's a tad OT. Re: OT arbyhis she, I think it very much depends on how your LO handles it and if you're able to nip it in the bud at the initial stages so it first become an issue, perpetuating EW.

My DD has always had a tendancy re:OT so I guess I'm a bit über cautious re: pushing naps/BT out too much in one go.

Certainly set naps and BT have help us enormously - after the 18SR we were all over the place for a few months but set naps helped fix that. My DD is 21m and wakes anytime between 6-7am (11-12h night) with 2h set nap at 12.30 (invariably capped). If she seems OT, on the odd occasion and let her nap longer just to put things straight again.

Good luck!

[*Kara*]

Funny enough, I would push that nap out later.  Earlier starts to the day at this age are commonly a sign that the nap is too early in the day, enforcing an early start.

[SusieQue]

Thanks for all your replies!  Kara, I was thinking about the nap being too early so I've put him down 10 minutes later today to see how he goes.  I think you are all correct though - BT needs to be pushed later!  It's such a shame he isn't napping for as long at the moment as he definitely needs 2 hours to be totally rested - he keeps waking up really grumpy after 1.5 hours but he never goes back to sleep.  I think set BT and nap time is the way forward.  Will keep you posted!

thanks again

[*Kara*]

he keeps waking up really grumpy after 1.5 hours but he never goes back to sleep

He's likely in that dreaded UT/OT loop   Push the nap out to 1230pm for a few days and if no change, push it to 1245pm for a few days...

At this age, A times do need to be moved fairly quickly... 10 mins at a time might not give the effect you are looking for.  Good luck

[SusieQue]

Well, we've not made much progress so far.  WU this morning was 5am (got him up at 6) after BT of 7pm.  I've been putting him down for his nap later, at 12.25, and he's usually asleep by 12.40.  He sleeps just under 1.5 hours and wakes up really grumpy!  I've been sticking to the BT of 6.50, so he is asleep at 7, but don't know if this is too early, too late - I just don't know what to try next.  Does this sound developmental?  He wakes up at 5 and is perfectly happy to lay in his cot for up to an hour, babbling to himself.  Perhaps earlier BT?  If he's waking at 5 anyway, I don't have much to lose I guess...

[*Kara*]

EEP... you are stuck in a OT spiral hun... a nap that short is most certainly OT driven.  And a 10 hr night is almost always OT related as well.

I think we might have to embrace that lovely 5am start to the day to get him back on track fairly quickly.

So, as much as it pains me to say this: get up with him when he wakes... nap 5 hrs later... do not wake him unless he hits 3 hrs.  Do your best to resettle if he wakes before the 2 hr mark... AP if you have to!  If nap is 2 hrs or more, BT 5.5 hrs later.  If the nap is under 2 hrs, set bedtime at 5pm.

So you could have this:

5am wake
10am -12noon nap (but don't wake unless 3 hrs)
5/530pm - BT  (6pm if he hits a 3 hr nap)

If this really isn't gonna fly with your family and it's needs, we could try splitting the difference with that 1hr that he will hang out in the crib and count it as 30 mins of A time so...

5am wake and play in crib
6am get him up
1030-1230 nap (but don't wake unless 3 hrs!)
530/6pm BT (630pm if nap hits 3 hrs)

[pgibb]

When my lo was about the same age we had early wake ups about 5.45am every morning. Think I was doing nap then of around 5.5 hrs awake time so decided to move to fixed nap. Think I started with 12.45pm + after a nearly a week wake ups were back to around 7am. She had always taken 1 hr naps before then but actually started taking 2 hr naps then.x

[SusieQue]

Eek! That does seem early to have his nap, but it does make sense to try and get him out of this cycle. He's at grandma's today so it won't work for today but will try tomorrow. Just hope we don't have a 4.30 wu from early bedtime! 

Thanks for your help!

[*Kara*]

It is a wild routine but the idea is to get a good routine happening then shift the whole thing to get the desired BT and wake time... you could try a set nap but I do think the OT will get worse than it already is and it could blow up quite badly.

[*Kara*]

Just hope we don't have a 4.30 wu from early bedtime!

And, as scary as that bedtime is, you do have a much better chance of getting him back to sleep if he does wake at that time.  Biology will be on your side, just treat as a NWing.

[SusieQue]

Thanks Kara, will let you know how we get on!