4.5 months NW, EW and short naps

[DorothyInOz]

Hi there!
I'm new to this board and new to the EASY way. I need some helping figuring out what's going on with my son!

How old is your child? **4.5 months
What’s his/her daily routine? **What we WERE doing up until yesterday....wakes up at 5am, bring to our bed until we are all up at 6am. Eat, sit in bouncer while I pump, play time, nap time (usually about 30 minutes IF I can get him down in his crib, 30-60 minutes if I hold him) up for more play time and then repeat the process putting him down for naps as he's tired. He would eat at 6,9,12,4,7 then in bed by 8pm. Usually wakes up about 30-60 minutes after bedtime but can almost always be sushed/patted back to sleep. Wakes up at 2-3am to be sushed/patted back to sleep. Here's the kicker....he's a tummy sleeper (I know, bad mommy), but he's beed a tummy sleeper since we put him in his crib at 4 weeks, so he moves around his crib A LOT and I usually find him with his head in the corner, hitting it on the crib. All we changed yesterday was that when he gets up at 5am, I get up THEN and feed him rather than bring him into bed with us.
What’s nap routine? **He can only handle being up for an hour and a hald to two hours, so I get him to nap according to that. Usually with me holding him, I can get him down in his crib 1-2 times a day.
How long are naps? **Normally 30-45 minutes
What's bedtime routine? Time? **6:50pm jammies, 7:00pm bottle, book, falls asleep in my arms, transfer to crib at 8pm.
Do you bottle or breastfed?? **Bottle fed breastmilk
How much? or how long? **average 5oz every 3 hours
How many wakes per night? **1-2 and up early in the am.
What’s your LO like when waking at night? How long is he/she up? **Can usually be sushed/patted back to sleep within 10 minutes. IF I have to get him out of this crib, he's usually very happy and smiley but it takes 30-40 minutes to get him back to sleep.
When you go to him/her is she fussing or crying? Or is it a mantra cry? **Fussing, he rarely cries.
What have you tried to settle?? **Ssh/pat, rocking, suckie
What do you do for A time and how long is it? **Floor time (he likes to roll), tummy time, exersaucer 30-60 minutes depending on his mood.
Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones? **Always!? He always seems to be working on a milestone, right now he likes to scootch around, expeically in his crib. And has been teething since 3.5 months!
Do they have a prop? **If so what is it? Have tried to use them but they don't seem to work. He uses a suckie to fall asleep, but spits it out before he's in a deep sleep. He has NEVER gotten it at night in his crib.
Do they have a lovie? **No, I'm afraid to give him anything in his crib, especially because he's a tummy sleeper.

[Erin M]

Hi there, welcome!
A few things -- if he's having happy wakings (especially in the middle of the night) he might need a slight increase in A time during the day.  I might track a few days and write down everything -- how long each of your A times is and how long he naps in order to see if you can find a pattern.  A general rule of thumb is that waking after 30 minutes of nap time means he needs less A time before the nap, waking after 45 minutes means he needs more A time (although that's not always true, some babies might need more A time with a 30 minute waking). 
I wasn't totally clear from your post -- is he falling asleep independently (you're putting him down in his crib awake) or are you holding/rocking him until he's asleep and then putting him down?  This can make a big difference when it comes to sleep!

[DorothyInOz]

Here is my sons schedule for the last 3 days. He used to be a decent napper, but for the last month or so has only wanted to nap while I hold him. I decided this I wasn't doing that anymore and thought I'd start the EASY routine. He gets his paci for naps but usually spits it out before he's in a really deep sleep. I've tried using the wave sound on his sleep sheep a few times since it is the closest thing I have to white noise, but he wakes up as soon as it shuts off, and even if I don't use it we rarely get more than 30 minutes. The 2 x 1.5hr naps on the 7th were a fluke! If I try to decrease his A time he's not ready to nap, and if I try to increase it he goes into overtired melt down mode.

May 7
W: 500am
E: 515
A: 530-630
S: 650 (in crib at 630 awake)  - 820
E: 830
A: 900-1015
S:1030 (in crib at 1015 awake, up @ 11 - ssh/pat back to sleep) - 1200
E: 1210
A: 1220-145
S: 200-230 (gave 20 minutes more time in his crib to see if he would soothe back to sleep)
E: 300
A: 320-500
S: 500-545 (in my arms)
E: 600
A: 615-745
S: 820 (overtired - started trying to get him to sleep at 745 as usual)
W: 200
W: 300
W: 330 (finally brought to our bed)

May 8
W: 550am
E: 600
A: 620-730
S: 730-800 (on me)
A: 800-900
E: 900
A: 930-1000
S: 1000-1045 (on me)
A: 1045-1200
E: 1200
S: 1215-1230
A: 1230-330
S: 330-500 (on me)
E: 500
A: 520-700
E: 700
S: 715
W:1200am
W: 200
W: 400
W: 445 (finally brought to our bed)

May 9
W: 600am
E: 610
A: 760-735
S: 750-825 (15min ssh/pat before asleep)
A: 830-900
E: 900
A: 920-1030
S: 1040-1110 (on me - we were out)
A: 1110-1200
E: 1200
A: 1215-115
S: 115-140 (left him in his crib for 20mins afte waking to see if he would self soothe)
A: 200-300
E: 300
A: 315-330
S: 340-410
A: 410-545
E: 600
S: 615-645
A: 645-830
E: 830
A: 840-910 (not really activity, just chill time rocking in his chair with mum)
S: 920 (way way over tired
W: 500am

Up until the last week and a half or so, his schedule had been pretty predictable, not anymore! I was usually letting him fall asleep while holding him and then transferring him to his crib. I try every nap now to get him to go down awake and ssh/pat to sleep, but it only works 1-2 times a day. We started doing a nap "routine" today. I find it hard if we have to go out and he falls asleep for 10-15 minutes in his car seat and he thinks that's a nap! There's no getting him down again after that.

HELP!

[DorothyInOz]

I should add that he's a tummy sleeper so he moves around in his crib a lot and can really fight the ssh/pat. We do have a fisher price aquarium attached to his crib that we don't use much, and when he wakes up from a nap I usually go in to find his face plastered to it even though it's not on, maybe I should remove it as it may be a distraction for him falling back to sleep?

[Erin M]

Oh goodness, you must be exhausted!  Is he waking up cranky from those 30 minute naps?  30 minute naps are often overtired naps -- it actually might be that you need to get him down a touch earlier for his naps.  What I think I'm seeing in your EASYs is that he's getting really overtired -- lots of short naps aren't going to be very restorative for him at all.  Plus, those early wakings are not doing particularly good things for your day.  I'd shoot for a 2 hour A time for your first nap and see where it gets you.  If he really fights it (if he's undertired, it will probably take him longer to settle and then he might be overtired by the time he falls asleep -- it's really an ugly, vicious cycle) and takes a long time to settle, I'd look at lengthening it a tiny bit (only 5-10 minutes every few days) until you get a decent nap.  However, if you're getting 30 minute cranky naps off of that 2 hour A time, decrease it a tiny bit and see what happens.  Regarding the 4 month sleep regression, there are some methods of lengthening naps described here -- How do I address habitual wakings? (wake-to-sleep and other methods) -- that might help. 

If he short naps the first nap, you're going to have to cut your A time for the second A time -- try cutting it by about 15 minutes and see if that helps your next nap.  Also, don't be afraid to let him nap in the car seat, stroller, swing, your arms, etc for the later naps if you're having a rough day -- it will help you in the long run to fight some of that OT buildup that's probably going on during your days. 

I'd also keep working on independent sleep -- sometimes with LOs you get to a point where it was working ok and now it's not working as well anymore.  (((hugs))), 4 months is a really hard time with sleep, there are so many changes going on at once! 

[DorothyInOz]

Based on the whole 30 minute naps are usually a sign of OT, is he not OT by his FIRST nap of the day? We've been working on naps all weekend and have yet to make it more than 30 minutes unless he is snuggled up with someone! We have developed a nap routine which is working well and he is going down in his crib without a fight (I would assume this would mean he's not UT or OT as he usually fights is it's either) but we are STILL only getting 30 minutes!? He wakes up from all naps very happy. We have continued with about 4 NWs each night this weekend as well. Friday night was a total of 2 hours of sleep for me!

[Erin M]

Based on the whole 30 minute naps are usually a sign of OT

30 minute naps are *usually* a sign of over tiredness -- not to say that they are 100% of the time.  With my ds, I had to look at how he woke, not when he woke -- if he woke up happy, no matter what the timing, he was under tired when I put him down for the nap and I needed to extend my A time.  Now, he could also be overstimulated -- that will also cause the short naps with the wide awake wake up. 

We've been working on naps all weekend and have yet to make it more than 30 minutes unless he is snuggled up with someone

So, based on this, he sounds like he's having trouble transitioning through sleep cycles (probably part of the 4 month sleep regression) -- have you looked at the "How to Address Habitual Wakings" sticky that I mentioned above?  You might try either HTTJ or W2S (depending on how he's waking) to extend the naps a little bit. 

Glad he's going down easily, that's often a great first step!

I'm assuming with 4 NWs and you getting only 2 hours of sleep, that they're long night wakings? 

[DorothyInOz]

Friday night was hard in general, he was hard to put to bed at night and the wake ups were long (which was VERY un usual for him) Last night was better, he was still hard to put to bed at bedtime, we still had 4 NWs, but they were all just s ssh/pat or pop his suckie back in (we NEVER used to give it to him at night, but I started last night - doesn't seem to be helping with the NWs though) I figured he was having trouble getting through the transition and that's why he will sleep well if you're holding/cuddling him. Haven't had much of a chance to check out the links, but will try today! How long does this sleep regression last? Is it okay at this point to just do whatever we need to get him through it, or can things become habit forming now? We also have a new "prop", but only use it to settle him before naps - the sleep sheep set to waves, it's the closest thing we have to white noise, but it gets turned off before he goes in his crib.

[DorothyInOz]

Also....I watched him for his first nap this morning and he does his transition at 25 minutes (I think) is it unusual for me to NOT be able to help him through it? I don't see or feel the 'jolt', but his eyes flutter open and I can't even ssh/pat back to sleep. And another question, I think I may be interpreting the whole A time incorrectly. For example, if he wakes up at 6am, eats at 610 and then is down for a nap at 8, how long is the A time there? I've always been calculating it based on the time he woke up from his sleep, so 2 hours? This is what this morning was like, and he was rubbing his eyes by 740 so I started his wind down at 745 and he was asleep by 8, but up at 825.

[Erin M]

You're right about the A time, it's eyes open to eyes closed, so 2 hours in your example above.  If you can't help him through it, I'd guess that he needs some more A time because it's pretty much impossible to resettle a baby who doesn't need any more sleep. 

The only thing we haven't talked about is discomfort -- any recent new happenings -- developmental stuff, teeth, new foods, etc? 

I think your sleep sheep is more part of your winddown routine than an actual prop.  The sleep regression can vary -- lasts longer in some babies -- really, they just need to figure out how to get through the transition and part of that is going to be finding the right routine for him. 

[DorothyInOz]

So for first nap this morning, I didn't do his winddown until he had been up for 2 hours, he fell asleep well and then had a 45 minute nap (an improvement at least) Should I continue bumping up his A time? How long is a good nap? If he's still on a 3 hour eating schedule I won't get more than an hour. At what point should I start transition him to a 3.5 hour schedule?

If he's still teething than he's been teething for a month and a half! lol We had 2 really bad weeks around 3 months when you could see his 2 bottom teeth coming through, now they are just up and down all the time, but he doesn't seem to be in any pain. He's also trying really hard to MOVE, he's always been a mover, but now that he can roll both ways he wants to crawl around, but hasn't figured out how to lift his body up. When I go in after wake ups, he's usually trying to scoot around on his tummy.

I read about the habitual wakings and am going to try the techniques. I told DH that I wondered if the furnace used to come on around 5am and wake him up in the winter, but then put him back to sleep with the sound and now that it's not on often he's still waking up. We live in a small house, so it wouldn't surprise me.

[Erin M]

So for first nap this morning, I didn't do his winddown until he had been up for 2 hours, he fell asleep well and then had a 45 minute nap (an improvement at least) Should I continue bumping up his A time? How long is a good nap? If he's still on a 3 hour eating schedule I won't get more than an hour. At what point should I start transition him to a 3.5 hour schedule?

I'd keep bumping it up slowly.  A good nap at his age would generally be two sleep cycles (1.5 hours) or more.  Regarding the eating schedule, if he naps long enough that it bumps his eating time out to 3.5 hours, that would be your transition right there.  It usually all goes together (longer A times, longer naps, longer times between eating). 

He's also trying really hard to MOVE, he's always been a mover, but now that he can roll both ways he wants to crawl around, but hasn't figured out how to lift his body up. When I go in after wake ups, he's usually trying to scoot around on his tummy.

This could be part of your wakings as well -- at this point, you can't do much other than wait out the developmental stuff and give him lots of opportunities to be moving during the day. 

Furnaces, etc can definitely cause wakings too -- LOs sleep very lightly in the early AM hours, so slight disturbances can mess with their sleep. 

[DorothyInOz]

I tried option #2 from the habitual wakings post for his second nap yesterday and he slept for 2 hours and 15 minutes (so 3 sleep cycles?)! I either did it too close to his regular wake up time or too much as he did wake up, but I put him back to sleep with ssh/pat within 5 minutes. Our afternoon was horrible though! He started to fall asleep in his bouncer (earlier than expected) clearly he was very sleepy so I let him. About 10 minutes after he was asleep, someone knocked on the door and woke him up! He refused to sleep after that, so it was an afternoon/early evening if him crying and me trying everything to settle him. On the upside, he only woke up at 330 and 430 this morning before I had to bring him into bed with me.

I tried the technique for his morning nap today without success. I guess it takes some practice for both of us.

[Erin M]

That extension was great!  Keep trying -- and try hardto stick with longer A times even if he is fighting a little bit. 

[DorothyInOz]

Need more EASY help! I'm starting DS on the 4 hour EASY this week (he's 5 months and a weeks now), but have some questions as we are also trying to fix some accidental parenting issues. So here we go....

When DS wakes at say 6am and I go in and do ssh/pat or PUPD, what do I do for his first nap if he doesn't fall back to sleep?! He'll never make it 3 hours! I might be able to push it to 2.5, but that's a challange.

Also, we're still having issues with NWs (we were up to 10, 2 nights ago, 2 last night - but these could be considered EWs as they were at 4 and 5am) but he is not a crier. He fusses and yells but doesn't cry. SO how do I know WHEN to go in and should I be doing PUPD to get him settled or just ssh/pat? I feel like ssh/pat is reinforcing the NWs?? We were always doing ssh/pat with NWs.

Now the naps.....he's still a half hour napper no matter how long or short his A time is! When he wakes up early from a nap (he also doesn't cry then) do I do PUPD or ssh/pat until he's asleep again? What if he DOESN'T fall back to sleep?!

I'll have more, but can we start here???