Wind down ideas for 2 spirited siblings sharing a room

[barbaraz78]

I would probably work on them separately. It is difficult now, I understand that, but in the long term maybe it could work. Then, I would probably try to work in is, trying not to stay with them while they fall asleep. If B gets out of bed, I would do silent return. In this way, you would avoid to be engaged. It would probably take lot of time and effort the first nights, but when he understand there is no fun involved, it should be quicker(if he's not ut, and the routine is ok). When he's asleep, if K is still awake, i would send him in his bed. If he's asleep, I would transfer him. Does K sleep independently or need you to fall asleep?

[my3girlsjde]

Hugs KM, I shouted at J tonight because she was just flipping and tossing all over her bed and keeping E awake. Every time she was drifting off, J would act out or kick the wall etc and I did lose my patience and hollered

It does get easier. Most nights they do go down easier now and I'm just working on E and independent sleep. Since the girls are insanely competitive, I have bribed them to compete with who can fall asleep the fastest gets the first ............... in the morning and sadly it is working.

I wish I had more/better advice. It has taken years for them to settle and the best luck I've had is telling them no more questions after a certain point. No more talking period.

[Khalam's Mama]

Thanks ladies.

Yes K can sleep independently (as can B or he could before BBB). Once B is asleep I leave K to it and he goes down ok, but that is usually because B only sleeps once K has calmed down enough not to do this

I shouted at J tonight because she was just flipping and tossing all over her bed and keeping E awake. Every time she was drifting off, J would act out or kick the wall etc

Barbara when B first moved to a BBB I spent 1 month doing silent return to bed and never got down to doing less than triple figures returns and it was getting worse not better. He is just too persistent. My plan was to do with him what I did with K and get him to stay in bed with me and then to leave for short periods (toilet/check dinner/check washing etc) and eventually i was able to just leave. 

Tonight was a bit quicker 30mins instead of 60.
I took them on the big trampoline in the garden and bounced with them for 15mins then we went for a walk around the block for 20 mins in pjs(warm so shorts and Tees) that involved walking on walls, balancing on kerbs, up and down many stairs and a huge hill, some skipping and a sprint along a lane for olympic medals. they were both breathing hard.
We had fruit for supper instead of porridge as it is very hot here then stories. They messed around a bit on book 2 (one each) so i cut it short but in a way that they didn't notice so it didn't upset them. they were calmer in bed but then B decided to pee and that was their cue to mess about a bit. I was very firm and cut it short and they slept. I also didn't take them up until 8pm which may have helped. K was probably v tired as he was up 6am for a pee and stayed up (often sleeps until 8 or 8.30). I was very sttrict about sayiing we can talk in the morning and not getting engaged in questions.

So thanks creations although I felt like i was doing what you suggested already I was actually able to tighten it up and do it more which may have helped. I often find with them it works for one night because it is different but then doesn't last so we will see. but even one night of less torture is a bonus.

[creations]

Well, you are certainly a go getter KM!   I am amazed by your energy to get them to trampoline and run around the block at BT when I know I just want to do the BT song and get out of the room.  Way to go!

Vibes for another good PD tomorrow...
...maybe they like the unpredictability of the change ups and not keen on having a regular WD routine?  Could be the one to try nest if BT exercise and being firm doesn't work long term.

[Khalam's Mama]

Yes true. I think a day in my office with no windows and at a computer and in meetings all day instead of on my feet left me in need of my own exercise! The sunny weather helped too but it was fun and they were being annoying in the house anyway so it was no rest there. I felt like I was killing time until BT as B had napped at mum's.

[Mama_Mia]

I'm glad things are getting a bit better, my only thought was when mine were that age they used to love me to sing to them which I couldnt do individually because I had 4 so I would tell them if they stayed in bed and be quiet I would stand in the kitchen and sing loud enough for them to hear me. And if any of them got out of bed, I would quit singing and the one that got up usually went right back to bed when they realized I wasnt going to sing anymore. That worked for me for about 2 years. Which was amazing because one of mine was quite a hellion.

[Khalam's Mama]

Omg I cannot sing at all. We used to sing but now they tell me to stop lol

[barbaraz78]

Can you try with a cd or an audiobook? If you put it on and say you leave the stories (or music) only if they stay in bed, this may help if they are interested

[okinawamama]

Hugs! I'm sure this is so frustrating, and then having to do deal with it by yourself each night must be tough! Have you thought about putting B back in a crib? I know things weren't great before the BBB, but didn't you say they were better than they are now? I wouldn't do it as a punishment, just have a matter of fact conversation about  the fact that BBB are for boys who can tell their body that it's time to calm down and get ready for bed. Sometimes that's hard and we need a little help, and a crib can help remind our bodies that it's not time to jump around and play with our brother.

[Khalam's Mama]

I tried the CDs, I bought some especially for this but they just yell over it.

I had to take him out of the cot because he was climbing out Steph as it was on the lowest setting and he could easily get in and out. Otherwise I would have a long time ago for sure. He can even get out of the travel cot or he would have had that for a while.

Back to the normal jump and yellathon this evening. I didn't do the physical activity like last night because they hadn't had dinner when I got in at 615 and so by the  time I cooked and they ate it was gone 8pm. Mum put b to nap too so I knew it would be a disaster.

I am off tomorrow so will keep him awake as long as um keeps him up the hr I'm at the dentist.

[Khalam's Mama]

I forgot to say around dinner B said "me tired mummy, me go bed pls "

[Khalam's Mama]

I just finished another marathon session with these crazy boys.
We did our evening walk which K begs for each evening now. Had to cut it short as k wanted the toilet and b fell over but had a good 10min run.

Tonight was a killer and I ended up saying to k as I left "mummy is getting very sad that we fight every single night" I was in tears as I am so fed up of this. I felt bad then because he said "I will try to be a good boy tomorrow night Mummy" and then he went straight to sleep. It was 8.30 by then though and b was asleep.
I had to put b in his bed while K and I finished stories earlier in my bed because B was kicking the book and jumping all over us. He cried a lot but I didn't want K to miss out too when he was laying nicely.

I am debating staying outside again. I started sitting in there because it was less hard work than the hr of 100s of return to bed I was doing but now it is just as bad inside, I am wondering if it is worth a try again. I am having some trouble with B Ew and refusing to stay in bed unless I stay but I am not sitting there every morning for 1.5hr while we await the sun to come up on the grow clock. He does let me leave and he goes back off if he wakes in the night, which is rare but still independent sleep.

I am actually hoping to find an on call shift I can cover which means sleeping at work overnight just so I can avoid this fight for one night. Dh is off the next 2 days and I am planning to be out at bt so he can put them down as they will cry for me if I am there but go down ok if I am not.

[barbaraz78]

Do you think they need routine change? Can they be ut?
I would try to speak to k out of the moment again, telling him that mum is tired and becomes grumpy and sad if the have to fight every night.
Hugs!

[weaver]

Hugs, that sounds really hard.  Just hope you get your night off tomorrow.

Just remembered a friend commented to me recently that she's just clicked that her LO needs variety in her evening routine to go to bed well, eg when they were on holiday and every day was different, she slept like a log, but at home when they tried really hard to get into a good routine, it was a nightmare.  So now she introduces small changes regularly, like walking down to meet dad from the train etc.  Says it really helps. 

[Khalam's Mama]

Thanks.
 Was pondering ut. It is hard because k has gone from doing 12 to 13 hr nights to 10 so I really doubt he is still under tired. He was up at 6 this morning and he didn't go to bed until 8pm and was still awake at 8.30. He just turned 4 and was doing 14hr nights when he dropped his nap so is quiet high sleep needs. Surely he hasn't dropped from 12 to 10 hr nights in a couple months. Also yesterday because b did not nap k was asleep by 730. It is always just an hr from when I do bt. And he was only up early because b got in his bed and disturbed him otherwise he was soundo even with b yelling for me at 545am. If I grab b out of the room in the morning and take him down k will sleep 12 hrs so he is only doing 10 because bt is late and then b is waking him in the morning. In fact I am sure he is ot but with this bt carnage I cannot help that.

Now b I am sure he is ut when he naps and am trying hard to drop it. I am struggling because when he does a 9hr night and gets up 545 it is impossible to keep up up until a decent bt but every time he naps his nights are short. But yesterday he did not nap and still played up at bt and was not ut. And we did a week of no nap last week and it was the same story.

I will speak to K again. We had a really good talk this morning about his behaviour in general and he has been better today, but still not great. We did not speak about bt specifically so will do that again.

I will try the variety at bt routine. The days are fairly varied. K is obsessed with his routines though, if I try to have dinner late and no supper k will not be happy, now he is convinced we will walk the same walk I described above every night, it involved a walk down some steep stairs which was ok on bin day but the next time was smelly as is near some bins for some flats so I wanted to avoid by K remembers every last detail of the route we took including whether we walked on the kerb or in the car park etc and the time we started one way and realised we missed our turn etc. so will have too keep it exciting enough to avoid that being another bone of contention.