Author Topic: NW, EW and general nighttime madness with twins  (Read 752 times)

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Offline myboysmummy

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NW, EW and general nighttime madness with twins
« on: August 05, 2013, 08:38:33 am »
Help!

My twin boys, now 8 months have always followed EASY, very happily. Lots of good napping in the day (I did a bit of PU/PD sleep training to get them to nap by themselves around 4 months) and sleeping happily at night with one/two feeds. About a month ago I stopped feeding at night, as they were on solids and seems ready (only a short feed each night).

Since then things have been in slow decline. They were waking during the night, but white noise and a little pat put them back to sleep. Then early waking started - 5.30, then 5. We sat with them in their room, keeping the blinds drawn and waited until 6 to feed and start the day. Not only no improvement over a few weeks, it's getting worse! Now Finn wakes at 4 regularly and I have resorted to feeding him, and he goes back to sleep until 6. Theo on the other hand has started waking all the way through the night - last night was 9.30, 11.00, 11.45, 12.45 and 3.15. Can't do this any more!

This was our easy routine until last week:

5.30 wake
6 breast feed
7 breakfast
8.30/9 nap (usually 1.5 hours but occasionally only 45 mins)
10.30 breastfeed
11.30 lunch
1.00 nap (3 hours after waking from last nap. usually 1.5 hours but occasionally only 45 mins)
3.00 breast feed
4.30 3rd cat nap (Finn no longer has this, Theo does sometimes)
5.00 supper
5.45 bath, breastfeed and bed
6.30-7 fall asleep

After reading about 3-2 transition I brought bedtime forward and have been stricter on stopping cat nap. But still no improvement....

Recently they have also started really resisting going to sleep - throwing their heads back and arching their back while I hold and sing to them, only calming down to go to sleep on my shoulder.... IS this teething? Or being OT?

There are so many possible things going on:

 - moving from 3 to 2 naps? Will it take a while for things to settle?
- teething? They both have two bottom teeth, could the others be coming through and causing pain? I donít want to fill them up with calpol un-necessarily.
- colds? Theo in particular has a nasty cold now, and woke up with a cough but in the past colds have never caused this much disruption
- milestone? Both boys started crawling in the last 2 week and are now exploring everything in sight and pulling themselves up on things.
- separation anxiety? And if this is it what can I do about it?
- need a different routine?

It just feels like the whole thing is falling apart! Not sure where I'm going wrong so any suggestions would be fantastic

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: NW, EW and general nighttime madness with twins
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2013, 16:34:33 pm »
Big hugs to you.  I'm not sure how you handle two.  I think you have listed off all of the possible reasons and likely it's not just one thing that is causing the nw's.

Wrt Theo's cold, unfortunately illness will cause nw's.  if the cold is not clearing quickly, consider going to the dr.  You can run a humidifier to help with stuffiness. 

Wrt their routine, I would start to increase their A time so that they are up for 3.25 to 3.5 hrs roughly.  An early am nap may be causing ew's.  so just increase their morning A in 10 min increments so that they can get used to the a.  The A can be increased every 3 to 4 days until they are up for roughly 3.5 hrs.  The 3rd nap should be dropped.  If possible, try an early bt if there is a short pm nap and the A will be too long until their normal bt.

Wrt teething....well most babies this age are teething.  It's hard to tell if this is the problem but frequent nw's (like Theo's) makes me think discomfort.  So teething or his cold or a combo of both. 

Developmental milestones like crawling will cause nw's.  give them lots of time to practice during the day and use Pd at night when they wake. 

Wrt to SA, how are they during the day?  Clingy or alright to explore on their own?

HTH

Offline myboysmummy

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Re: NW, EW and general nighttime madness with twins
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2013, 09:02:42 am »
Thanks so much for your posting - I'll try stretching their morning A over the next week to see if that makes a difference. Although sometimes they do seem overtired already after 3 hours A - Finn just now was bawling and arching his back - and then I admit I hold and jiggle right up until he falls asleep on my shoulder....

in fact I wonder if the whole thing is de-railing by my caving in and getting them to sleep with props (my shoulder, holding, patting). At night I put on the white noise to start with, then pat, and if those don't work I then lift them - and in fact I'm just holding them until they go to sleep again. So perhaps I've made them un-learn how to self-soothe????? I can do PU/PD during the day, but at night I'm just not sure I'll have the energy to go through it with BOTH of them... arghhh!

With SA - they are generally fine with exploring by themselves, but I'm noticing Theo is starting to be a bit more clingy - though could also be his cold.....

We're about to go on holiday for 10 days at the end of August which I know will mess things up - do you think I should hang in there until we come back and then do sleep training again at night, or start immediately?

Thanks so much for your advice!

Ella

Offline myboysmummy

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Re: NW, EW and general nighttime madness with twins
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2013, 09:10:09 am »
sorry I have some other doubts...!

if I put them down drowsy and not actually asleep in their cots but they still need a bit of patting and the sleep sheep on - is that a prop or does that still encourage self-soothing?

I seem to be starting to feed both again at night - around 4am. they mostly go back to sleep for another hour or so. Should I count that as their *very* early morning breakfast feed, and go straight to solid breakfast, or feed them again when they wake up, which means overall adding in an extra feed at 4am?

Thanks so much!

Ella

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: NW, EW and general nighttime madness with twins
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2013, 12:04:38 pm »
Ok, yes, there is probably a bit of a prop issue :(. I would try to settle in the crib if possible.  So PU/PD but modified.  If they are really upset, pu.  Otherwise try to settle in the crib.  Some will pat the mattress whilst sitting next to the crib.  I used to gently lay my hands on my DS' chest and legs until he relaxed and fell asleep (with no talking or eye contact). 

Their morning A will be affected by how well they slept the night before so a rough night/ew may cause them to be more tired.  Do watch their cues but try to keep them up if at all possible (even if its just a few min longer).  They will start to get used to it. 

Wrt ST, I would start on settling in the crib now.  Partly because you can continue this when you are on vacation (even if your routine gets messed up). 

Wrt nf's, I considered anything before 6 am to be a night feed and not breakfast.  So if they went back to sleep, it was a nf.  I did do a top up feed in the morning when my dd woke just so our routine stayed the same. 

I hope Theo gets over his cold soon.  They usually are more clingy when they are ill.

Offline myboysmummy

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Re: NW, EW and general nighttime madness with twins
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2013, 15:57:25 pm »
Thanks PaulsMum - had a much better night last night :) both went down between 6.30-7, Finn woke at 3.30 so I fed him, then Theo woke at 4.30 so I fed him, both went back to sleep and got a total of 11 hours each! Hope this happens again tonight too!! I think Theo's illness was a bit factor in his waking all the time. Poor little mite.

I've always had a strict rule to b/f them at the same time, but as I seem to have lapsed into bf again at night I'm doing it separately - would your advice be once again to wake the other twin to feed at the same time? it means i'd get more sleep, and I think I've accepted that they both want one feed at night at the moment...

Finn only had 45 min naps today though so not sure what's going to happen tonight at BT and whether that means an EW too... will try to put him down early.

Will keep you posted - Thanks for your support!

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: NW, EW and general nighttime madness with twins
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2013, 17:08:19 pm »
Yay for the better night!  :)

I think, if it were me, I would feed them both at the same time if you know that they will both wake during the night.  In the short term you can all catch up on sleep.  But, this isn't a long term solution.

Is Theo feeling better?

How well do they eat during the day?  Although milk is very important for them, they are getting to an age where they should be eating a decent amount throughout the day.  By ensuring that they get enough to eat and drink throughout the day, you can get them to a stage where they won't need to eat during the night. 

Offline myboysmummy

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Re: NW, EW and general nighttime madness with twins
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2013, 18:34:38 pm »
Eating has been a problem but thankfully things seem to have improved - hurrah! On Sunday they'd eaten really well so I decided not to feed during the night and just comforted them when they woke up - both just once. Then last night they slept until 5.30 - having gone to sleep at 6.30 - amazing! Fingers crossed things continue like this - I feel a million times better having had one good night's rest.

Thanks for all your support - really great to get your thoughts - i'll post back if/when the next thing comes up

Ella

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: NW, EW and general nighttime madness with twins
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2013, 20:32:16 pm »
Great update!  So glad that things are working out!