16 month schedule to fix EW & NW

[louis-mummy]

Hi all

I have tried looking through routines and stickies but think sleep deprivation is muddling my brain.

I asked for help a few weeks ago about help with DS2' routine (due to NW's) and got some good advice about giving him a short am nap and (hopefully!) longer pm nap.
Haven't had too much success with implementing it because a lot of the time DH or my mum has him for naps and they just don't get it! Ensuring his last nap ends 3-4hrs before bedtime has worked well and just recently he has often STTN (yay!!) but now with EW's, often well before 6am.

This would be a typicalish day now

WU 5:30 (given drink and will lie in bed for another 20 mins)
Nap 9:30-11:10
Nap 14:30-15:30
Bed 7:30 (settles really well 

I know this is not a great routine but he is exhausted by 9am and i don't seem to be able to articulate why we need to push him through to a later/shorter nap. Mum is nervous that he will short nap in pm too and it will all be a bigger mess. Apparently he wakes up happy after each nap and she feels its not causing the problem. Also she's looking after DS1 too and we dont' want him to be housebound during the school holidays! Makes it trickier.
So i think we need to shift things gradually but i don't think he's ready for 1 nap, even after a good night sleep.

Any thoughts/direction appreciated!

[Layla]

I think he may be having too much daytime sleep (2.5 hrs) and with a 10 hr night, that's about right for a toddler (12-13 hrs). I had alot of success with shorter am and longer PM nap but it looks as though your pm nap is the shorter one. You would probably have to have DH and mum on board if you do decide to change the schedule. You could try and shorten the pm nap so that bedtime is earlier, which should help extend his night sleep and he won't be so tired in the morning and should be easier to push the morning nap out, which should help with the wake up time....

I am sure others will add but that's probably what I would try and do and see if it makes a difference to the wake up time

[Baileysmom31112]

For us, it was really, really important to push that morning nap out to later in the morning. If my lo took a nap that early, it would always, always cause an EW the next day. It's a tough pattern to break because they get up so early and then are so tired too early in the day, but I would really try pushing back that first nap and compensating with an early bedtime for a few days to see if the EW resolves...I also have my mom babysitting twice a week and she was tough to convince, but I told her that every time my lo took an early nap, he would wake up too early the next day and she finally felt bad enough for my sleep deprivation that she go on board with pushing back the am nap. It does keep you more housebound for awhile because they will fall asleep out and about, but if it means I can sleep in until 6:30-7am, it's worth it to me! Of course, at this age, it could also be developmental or teething waking your lo up so early. GL!

[HenaV]

Hi there!

I agree with the early nap as a likely hindrance for you in that its probably perpetuating the EW. It may be your LO has come to rely on that early nap iykwim?

I certainly would look to not only pushing that 1st nap out and getting rid of the 2nd nap by cutting one of them back to get rid of it. Do you that might be something that could work for you?

Hena

[louis-mummy]

Thank you all

He refused his pm nap today so we will see what happens tonight! (I forgot to ask how long his am nap was or what time)

Mum starting letting him nap earlier in the am so that there was time to fit in a 2nd with 3-4hrs before bed. Which did seem to help with sttn. I think he would cope with a catnap and 1 decent nap but not ready for full on move to 1 nap. i think the fear is that is we push the am nap to 11 and he sleeps til say 12:30 which is not enough daytime sleep.
Well we have to try a tweak and hope its for the best!
 
The 12-13 hr total sleep makes sense 

He has never been a good sleeper 

[HenaV]

Ok, so I guess you could try one of two things (depending on what to think your LO will best respond to without getting OT:

Nap 1: 10-10.30 (CN)
Nap : 1-3pm
BT: max 13h after WU

Or:

Nap 1: 10-12
Nap 2: 4.15-4.45(CN)
BT: max 13h after WU

With my DD when working towards one nap, we had a PM CN. But i do think you need to work it as you think your LO will best respond.

What do you think?

H

[louis-mummy]

Thankyou that's very helpful

My feeling Is that option 2 might not work after a bad night, if hes OT we get a short nap. I think we'll aim for option 1. FX!

He's already unsettled this evening after missing his pm nap - boooo!

[HenaV]

Boo-hoo! Well good luck - look forward to hearing how you get on 

[louis-mummy]

Thanks Hena

So yesterday he napped from 10-12 (pushing through to later did seem to help with longer nap) but he refused a catnap later, Mum and DH both tried around 4pm. Had him asleep for the night before 7pm. We had some evening and nw's
He woke at 5:15am but i managed to settle him a couple of times until 6:30 - not sure if he did go back to sleep at all.

We are going to try for the same nap today, 10-12 and hope for a catnap today

FX!

[HenaV]

It sounds like he was OT to me. 7h is a long A time at that age. If you think he's not ready at 4 which he might not be after a 2h nap, you could always try 4.15/30 for 30m

Good luck x

[anna*]

That was always the trouble with my two - doing a long am nap they would just refuse a pm catnap altogether. So I'd do a 30 mins am nap and then they'd be tired enough for a decent pm nap. And if the pm nap was short, at least it wasn't too long to wait til bedtime!

[HenaV]

I agree with Anna re: trying an AM CN if the PM one isn't happening. So perhaps go with option 1 I posted below?

[louis-mummy]

Thanks, I too think that would be better schedule.
Will see how it goes today and then move to option 1 from tomorrow if today doesn't go well again. My mum wanted to take the boys out this pm.

[louis-mummy]

Things are going badly 

Every day has been different (not good, i know) he's waking every 1-2 hrs during the night and EW

Tried giving him a 40 min nap at 10am and he refused an afternoon nap (we were out but somewhere quiet, walking with the pushchair for hours) he finally fell asleep in car at 4.30pm for half an hour
Tried giving him a longer am nap but he refused the pm nap
Tried pushing him to a 1 nap day but he only slept for 1hr 15m - 11:30-12:45

Obviously hes OT and has an early bedtime. I think i know we need to stick to the same routine and hope he gets the hang of it but its hard with DS1 being off school.

Whats bothering me too is that he wants a drink every time he wakes, i'm not sure if this is genuine or a get back to sleep prop

Help!

[HenaV]

It could be a prop but i would get it checked out, just to be on the safe side. I found my DD wanted to drink more when she was actively teething. I think it was a comfort thing for her. I did go to the docs to be sure and it was nothing to worry about. All the same, it might be worth a visit just to put your mind at ease.

I know it's not easy when LOs are not being consistent but do think the way forward is for you to be consistent. So decide which plan you think you can best implement and stick with it for at least a week x