Started sleeping through the night, doubt about routine.

[Lilo's mom]

Hello! I am new to this forum and it was very comforting to learn that short naps are an issue for several people!
I am writing this post because I have a few questions on sleep.
My baby is 11wo, and I was feeding him every 3 hours. His last feed was around 8 pm and he used to wake up between 1and 2am for a NF. I tried to implement the dream feed but couldn't (as he's to sleepy to drink), so I decided to cluster feed instead. This week I started feeing him in a 3 hour interval in the morning, 2 1/2 hour interval in the afternoon and then one at 7 pm amd the last one at 9 pm. Total 7 feeds. My LO started to go 9 hours straight until his next feed two days ago, and I am a much happier person since  .
I breasfeed and complement every other feed with 60 ml of milk. About his nap schedule: 1,5 h in the morning, about 40 min at noon and 2-3 30 to 40 min in the afternoon. For some reason his naps get shorter as the day progresses,,,
 My questions are:
1. Do you think that, if I go back to the 3 hours interval he will go back waking up during the night or is it possible that he learns to sleep the whole night if I keep the schedule I am for a few more days?
2. As he increases his night sleep (8, 9, 10 hours) do I need to change the nap scheme? As I understand, until 4 months the ideal is to have 3x1,5 h naps and one 40 min catnap - is this recommendation regardless of the time he sleeps at night?

Thank you!

Mariana

[PaulsMom]

Hi there and welcome to BW!

I hope you don't mind but I moved your post to the EASY forum since your Lo is sttn and your questions are more about his routine.

[jessmum46]

Hey there, welcome to BW

His nights sound great!  At this age, particularly if you are mainly breastfeeding, you wouldn't expect him to be able to last all night long without a feed.  At least one feed and probably two would be normal, some would even still have three overnight feeds.  So I would stick with what you're doing as it seems to be working well, and try to be patient until he gets a bit more mature and can manage a full night without a feed.  In the BW books Tracy doesn't expect this to happen until nearer 7-8 months which is the time she would advise starting to drop the dream feed once LO is established on solids.

With your question regarding routine, it doesn't look as if your LO gets a lot of sleep during the day but I'm not quite sure when you start and finish the day.  Could you post your routine in EAS format for me to have a look at? (Example below) yes if the night is short you will have to adjust the daytime to ensure LO isn't getting it but I can help you further with a bit more info

Example EAS format:

WU & E 7am
A
S 8.30-10am
E 10am
A
S 11.30-12
A
E 1pm etc

[Lilo's mom]

Thanks for your reply! Here is our routine (approximately...)

WU and E - 6am
A
S- 7 - 7:30

E- 9
A
S - 11

E-12
A
S- 13:30 (or a little later)

E- 14:30
A
S- 16:30 (some times before, but it is unlikely that his nap will last more than 40 min)

E - 17
A
S - 18:30 (same as above)

E - 19
A
S- 20h or no sleep.
Bath- 20:30
E- 21
BT- 22

Now that I am writing it down it is looking to me that he has a very long day...he gets really tired right before the bath (that is why usually I cant get him to nap ), but it is really easy to put him to sleep at bedtime. He sleeps quickly, and is going 8 hours straight... thanks God.
A few remarks on the eating: his feedings last about 40 min...  20 at each breast. I know it is a lot. It startrd when he was days old, because he fell asleep several times during feeding so I had to let him stay for a long time. But when he struggled to gain weight in hs first two weeks, we started supplementing. Today I would like to reduce the feeding lenght, but I offer the supplement every other feeding and he takes it, so I think he is still hungry even after 40 min. So I dont feel comfortabe with reducing feeding length... During the 20 min he is on the breast., he suckles vigorously for about 5 to 6 min, and then stops for a rest. Then suckles again for 1 min or so and stops sgain, and it goes on umtil he sleeps or I stop it with 20 min and change the breast. I can hear him swallow so I think he is realy drinking. Do you have any advice on that???

Thank you so mch!!!

Best, Mariana

[jessmum46]

Hi again Marina

My understanding with breastfeeding is that it's not the length of the feed that is important so much as other markers such as is LO gaining weight appropriately and having enough wet and dirty nappies.  It's worth bearing in mind that any routine supplementation may adversely affect your supply as your breast is not getting the stimulation it needs to make more milk for LO.  But normally I think the advice is to let LO feed until they are satisfied on one side, and then offer the other side which they may or may not take.  I'll ask one of the breastfeeding ladies to pop over and offer you their advice too. 

The thing that leaps out from the routine is that many of your LOs A times are very long for his age.  I wonder if his sleepiness at the breast could be that he's exhausted a lot of the time?  Have a look here for some advice about age-appropriate A times: Average A times- BOOKMARK ME!!. And also as you pointed out his day is very long.  We normally try to aim for a 12h day overall - there are some links to sample routines here: Sample EASY routines, 0-3 months

[*Ali*]

Katherine has already given you some great advice on routine and eating

Are you trying to reduce the formula feeds or would you rather reduce the BFing? It is actually very common for a baby to take a couple ounces from a bottle immediately after a full BF even when they aren't hungry simply because it is so easy so the fact he takes it doesn't necessarily mean he is not getting enough milk from you. If there are no issues with the weight any more I would try stopping the top ups now.

Have you tried breast compressions to speed up the milk if you think she is not actively feeding or is struggling to get the milk out?

[Lilo's mom]

Ali, i never answered your question about breast compression. No, I havent. Where can I find more details about t? What it its goal, to try to get the milk to flow quicker?
As I mentioned in the other thread! I Do want to reduce the bottle, but I am ot very convinced he accepts that just because it is easy...

Katherine: thanks for your reply! I could never introduce the dream feed, that is why his last feed is so late. But I know i am stretching too much his day. If I simply cut his feeding times to 6 I know it is very unlikely that he goes through the night... Right?

Thanks !

[jessmum46]

Yes I wouldn't expect him to do a 12h night without a feed at his age, especially if you're breastfeeding.  Getting up at night is part of being a Mum unfortunately!  DD dropped her one night feed at 7 months, until then I got up once a night (usually 4/5ish) to feed her x

[*Ali*]

Sorry I meant to link this FAQ on breast compression Breast compression
Yes it is to stimulate the flow of milk.

[Lilo's mom]

Thanks Ali! I was not familiar with this technique. I really think that I have a slow letdown, that is why he takes so long feeding. Sometimes he sucks more than 10 times before swallowing, it is got to be because he gets little milk ech time he sucks- right?
Thanks!

[*Ali*]

What about expressing a little to get closer to let down before you pop him on?

[Lilo's mom]

Ali, do you have any material that I can read on expressing? Today i was feeding him and after about 12 min he started to get really fussy. When I changed the breast he got quiet. Probably my milk was flowing too slowly in the end... I tried comression but at this point it didnt work.
Thanks!
Mariana

[*Ali*]

Here are some links

Instructions on how to express by hand.
Pumping

http://kellymom.com/category/bf/pumpingmoms/