24 month old never has slept well. Night wakings and early waking

[Kaunis77]

My 24 month old daughter has never slept well.

Since she was born she woke up several times every night, and I usually gave her the paci or breastfeed her. AND, she woke up early everyday (at 6:45 – 7:00 am, and it was impossible to get asleep again.

She was very dependent of her paci, and I had to sleep in her bedroom until she was 8 months, because I used to wake up 10 – 20 times every night.

She stopped breastfeeding when she was 9 months old, and I used to give her a bottle about 6 am, in order to try her to wake up later. Bur gradually she asked for the bottle earlier everyday, until she asked for it sometimes at 11:00 pm!

So I decided to stop the bottle at night. It took three days (when she was 18 month old), but after that when she woke up she asked for the paci or for water. Usually she used to wake 2  - 3 times every night.

This summer we started with the potty training with success, but when she wakes up at night she sometimes asks for pee. As she drinks water at night, she usually needs to go to the toilet. But every night she asks me for the paci or water or pee. Between 2 – 8 times every night.

And the worst of all, is the early wakings! She goes to sleep at 9:00 – 9:30 pm, and at 5:00 – 6:00 she wakes up and wants to leave the crib and go to the living room. I tell her she has to continue sleeping, and leave the room, but after 10 – 20 minutes she cries again. I don’t take her out of her crib until 7:00 am, but I have to walk in/ walk out several times, and she doesn’t get asleep.

As she hasn’t slept enough, at 12:00 am she is SO very tired. Sometimes she asks me to take her to her crib. In the kindergarten the kids do a nap from 13:30 to 15:00 pm, so I try to keep her awake until 13:30, but she usually is very, very tired. For example, today we went to the park, and at 12:30 she went to her chair and got asleep on her own.

Any comments or suggestions? Thank you!

[anna*]

Can you get her to bed earlier? 9pm is a very late bedtime. Does she wear a diaper at night? I would leave a small non-spill sippy of water in her crib with her, but be quite strict that she must pee in her diaper at night. I think I'd get hold of a Groclock or something similar and just be totally consistent with her, that you're not responding torequests (unless she's genuinely ill or afraid of course) during night time, and she will not leave her crib until morning.

[Kaunis77]

Well, in Spain we usually wake up and go to bed later. My older daughter usually sleeps from 9 pm to 8:30 am.

I have tried to get her to bed earlier, but it doesn't work.

She uses a nappy at night, but I thought that taking her to the toilet if she asks for pee at night was a good point. I can confuse her if now I tell her to pee in the nappy. Of course, I should restrict the water, I agree with you.

I have already bought a gro-clock last week, but only used one night. There is too much light in the room with the clock!

Another point is that we plan to chage her to a bed because she is a big girl, and if she sleeps in a bed, probably will leave the bedroom!

[anna*]

She will be dry through the night when her hormones are ready - I would definitely tell her to pee in her diaper at night. "Wee wees go in your nappy at night honey". Absolutely do not get her out for any reason - you need to be totally consistent with this. I'm not completely sure how, but I know it is possible to have the Groclock turned OFF to show night time, and only lights up with the sun in the morning. Perhaps turn the brightness down to 0? If that's not possible then you could get some fairy lights on a timer switch to do the same thing. Again the key with the Groclock or fairy lights is to be 100% consistent. If you ever let her get up before your earliest wake up (and if bedtime is 9pm I would suggest that your earliest morning start is 8am), she won't learn that this is an absolute rule that cannot be broken.

I would do whatever you can to keep her awake until a 1pm nap. If her nap is short and she sleeps less than 10.5hrs at night I would do an earlier bed, maybe 8 or 8.30.

Also, I would not move her to a big bed just yet! There is no rush unless she is climbing out of her crib!

[Kaunis77]

I wish I could get her to sleep until 8:00 am!!

I will try to change the night habits and not to get her out of the crib. The problem is that she is really upset when she feels the wet nappy. But surely she has to take less water at night.

I'm going to check the gro-clock to change the brightness, also.

Thanks a lot for you help!

[anna*]

If you are consistent about not getting her out of her cot, she will realise there is no point getting upset and she might as well go back to sleep! I would set the clock first for 7am, then once she is staying quite until 7, move the clock on by 10 mins every couple of nights until it is at 8.30.

[HenaV]

Don't know if this may help re: wet nappies... I've always used loads (and when I say loads it really is) of nappy cream at night. It help protects the skin from the pee but also us said to help reducevthenridk sensation of wet nappy overnight. Top tip from one of Tracy's books that's always worked for us. Maybe worth a shot?

[Kaunis77]

Great idea! I will try

[tinypixie]

Call me stupid but surely 'dry at night' means able to recognise they need the toilet/potty and use it, this is he biological occurrence that is meant to happen and what we are waiting for. Not dry at night is sleeping through the urge to pee and wetting diaper/bed.

Two of my three older children were dry at night by 24 months, if they needed the toilet they went and didn't wet the bed.

Training for children considered 'persistently not dry at night' involves devices which rouse the child (a bell/buzzer) if they start to pee in their sleep so that they can stop and use the toilet. It is not expects to be able to hold ones urine for 12 hours straight. Hell even I dont manage that and I regularly hear my kids get up in the night, have a pee and go back to bed.

Telling a child that is aware of her need for the toilet to start wilfully peeing whilst laying in bed seems like a massive backwards step to me and could lead to a long term habit that is hard to undo.

Just my thoughts based on what I have read over the last 18 years of child rearing, discussions with my dr, and what I was told about 'being dry' when I had one child who was a consistent bed wetter.

[anna*]

Just basing on my own experience of my nearly two year old who will repeatedly ask to use the potty and then not pee, as a stalling tactic. Personally I think kids CAN understand the difference between day time and night time protocols. Maybe reducing the number of drinks overnight will reduce the incidence, and Kaunis should certainly only proceed as she feels comfortable with. My son (dry overnight since 3) NEVER wakes to potty - he sleeps through 12 hours, then wakes and does a huge pee. Of course aware that not all babies are going to be the same here.

For me, sleep trumps potty training, and if potty training is getting in the way of sleep then steps need to be taken. Other mums will have different values though.

[tinypixie]

I suppose it depends on how many of the 2-8 wakings are for the potty? And if indeed a pee is produced. I think two is old enough to explain that messing about and asking for the potty if not needed is Not On. Is never tell a two year old to deliberately lay in bed and pee though. I think if there always is a pee on the potty then it's worth considering how long between potty times happens during the day? If those seem to be fairly short intervals too then maybe an over active bladder is to blame? Most advice about potty training at night think it is perfectly normal to need the potty at night. We used to 'lift' our girls for a pee on the potty before we went to bed and that seemed to make the interval before waking for the potty again much longer. We taught them to get out of bed and sit on the potty and go back to bed, without waking us at all as soon as we could. We left the potty by the bed and a little night light on so they could find it. All children are different though so I guess it's about finding the right balance for your child in the big scheme of things.

[anna*]

Again I think it is down to preference. In our house, sleep absolutely comes first, so I would not encourage - or yes, even allow - my daughter to get up to potty if it meant I would have to get up, get her up from the crib, get her out of her sleep sack, PJs and nappy, then get her all dressed again and settle her back to sleep. Once she is in a big girl bed, and she is at least moving towards being able to manage herself, then I would reconsider. Like you say, to get out of bed, potty and get back to bed (knowing of course that they'll need help with that in the beginning).

FWIW, the advice is generally NOT to lift to pee, because that itself discourages the production of vassopressin which is the hormone responsible for night dryness.

But to try to bring my somewhat general ramblings back to this thread I guess if my daughter was SLEEPING WELL but wanted to be dry at night, that would be one scenario with a thread on the Potty Training board. But for me, given that sleep is NOT good, personally I would, yes, deliberately stall night dryness and get the sleep 'fixed' before trying to make any progress on night dryness.

Of course, just my own opinion.

[Kaunis77]

Well, this discussion is very interesting.

My daughter has never slept well. And after potty training, she has found the perfect excuse to keep my attention. On the other hand, she asks for water every time she wakes up at night, and is normal that a big pee is produced. I usually take her to the toilet the first time she asks for pee (and always produces pee). But if after 10 - 20 minutes she asks again, I don't take her to the bathroom. I tell her to go to sleep and leave her room.
The point is that she gets really upset if I don't give her water every time, so I think that I should start with reducing the amount of water.

Thanks a lot for you help!

[Kaunis77]

Last night my DD woke up 3 times.
The first time at 2:00 am, she asked for water and after that continued sleeping.
The second time at 4:20 and she asked again for water.
The third time at 6:20 she asked for pee. I took her to the toilet, and realized that the nappy was completely dry! She did a huge pee in the potty, and after that she wanted to go to the living room. She got very upset when I put her the nappy again, and cried when I took her to the crib, but after 2 minutes of crying she has been quiet until 7:05.

I'm thinking about taking the potty to her bedroom, in order to avoid the visits to the bathroom.

And should I let her cry if she asks for water??? I think this has becomed a prop

[anna*]

I would put a small non-spill sippy of water in her cot with her, and when she wakes just direct her to find her cup and have a sip. Once it's finished, explain that the water is finished and she can have a drink in the morning. Don't pick up the cup, don't get her out of her cot - don't even go into the room if you can, just speak to her from outside the door.

If you do decide to go cold turkey, don't just leave her to cry - reassure her, even if it is from outside of the door, repeating your sleepy phrase.